(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[0.50]
PW[fabi]PB[tabby11]WR[19k]BR[20k]DT[2011-12-27]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]RE[B+1.50]
;B[qe]C[fabi [19k\]: hi again ;)
]
;W[pp]C[tabby11 [20k\]: hi
]
;B[dd]
;W[dp]
;B[jd]
;W[pd]
;B[od]
;W[pe]
;B[qd]
;W[pf]
;B[qf]
;W[nf]
;B[qh]
;W[ph]
;B[qo]
(;W[qq]
;B[pi]
;W[og]
;B[pm]
;W[jp]
;B[po]
;W[nn]
;B[ce]
;W[lj]
;B[dj]
;W[ii]
;B[qp]
;W[pq]
;B[rq]
;W[oo]
;B[on]
;W[no]
;B[qr]
;W[pr]
;B[qs]
;W[rr]C[fabi [19k\]: ah
]
;B[sr]
;W[ps]
;B[rs]
;W[om]
;B[pn]
;W[ol]
;B[ok]
;W[ml]
;B[oh]
;W[pg]
;B[ni]
;W[nh]
;B[oi]
;W[mh]
;B[mi]
;W[li]
;B[mk]
;W[lk]
;B[nl]
;W[nm]
;B[nk]
;W[pl]
;B[ql]
;W[pk]
;B[pj]
;W[qk]
;B[rk]
;W[qj]
;B[mm]
;W[ll]C[firtree [-\]: faby vs taby, hmmm
]
;B[ef]
;W[qi]C[klausP [9d?\]: gogogo fabi!
]
;B[cn]
;W[co]
;B[cq]C[klausP [9d?\]: why are so manny peaple watching this game?
]
;W[dr]C[firtree [-\]: i think the same reason as why 9d watches it )
]
;B[cr]C[fabi [19k\]: really exciting game
]
;W[bp]C[tabby11 [20k\]: yes
klausP [9d?\]: hehe
fabi [19k\]: many viewers
]
;B[bq]
;W[aq]C[klausP [9d?\]: fabi is a friend of mine
]
;B[ar]C[Sara [16k?\]: he's lucky to have a strong player as a friend :)
]
;W[bs]
;B[ap]C[firtree [-\]: oh, then maybe not the same reason ) maybe people just wonder what 9d found so interesting here
]
;W[ao]C[KiyoshiR13 [-\]: That is why I am still watching. lol
]
;B[cp]
;W[bo]
;B[aq]
;W[cs]C[Sara [16k?\]: It's very nostalgic watching such games too lol
]
;B[dq]
;W[eq]
;B[do]
;W[ep]
;B[bn]C[klausP [9d?\]: indeed nostalgic
klausP [9d?\]: I remenber the days when I played like this
]
;W[dn]
;B[an]
;W[eo]
;B[co]
;W[bo]
;B[en]
;W[dm]
;B[er]
;W[fj]
;B[ds]
;W[gr]
;B[fr]
;W[fq]
;B[gs]
;W[hr]
;B[hs]
;W[is]
;B[fs]
;W[ir]
;B[dl]
;W[el]
;B[em]
;W[fm]
;B[cm]
;W[fn]
;B[fl]
;W[ek]
;B[ei]
;W[dk]
;B[ck]
;W[fi]
;B[fh]
;W[gh]
;B[dh]
;W[ff]
;B[fg]
;W[gg]
;B[gf]
;W[fe]
;B[ge]
;W[fd]
;B[fc]
;W[eg]
;B[eh]
;W[gd]C[klausP [9d?\]: yay!
]
;B[ie]
;W[he]
;B[hf]
;W[hd]
;B[hg]
;W[ig]
;B[gi]
;W[hh]
;B[if]
;W[gj]
;B[jg]
;W[hi]
;B[ih]
;W[kh]
;B[ej]
;W[fk]
;B[kg]
;W[lg]
;B[jh]
;W[ji]
;B[lf]
;W[me]
;B[mg]
;W[ng]
;B[lh]
;W[ki]
;B[lg]
;W[mf]
;B[le]
;W[ld]
;B[kd]
;W[lc]
;B[pc]
;W[oc]C[fabi [19k\]: arduous game
]
;B[ob]
;W[nc]
;B[mc]
;W[mb]
;B[nb]
;W[md]
;B[ma]
;W[la]
;B[na]
;W[pb]
;B[qc]
;W[oa]C[tabby11 [20k\]: nnooooo
tabby11 [20k\]: my preciousss
fabi [19k\]: no need to worry...
]
;B[qb]C[klausP [9d?\]: :)
]
;W[jc]
;B[ic]
;W[id]
;B[kc]
;W[jb]
;B[ib]
;W[kb]
;B[ja]
;W[ka]
;B[ia]
;W[qg]
;B[rh]
;W[ri]
;B[rj]
(;W[si]
;B[sj]
;W[sh]
;B[sg]
;W[rg]
;B[rf]
;W[sf]
;B[se]
;W[sg]C[tabby11 [20k\]: argh i blew that one up...
]
;B[qa]
;W[pa]C[tabby11 [20k\]: it was mistake in the first place to let you split my right side group in two
]
;B[gc]C[Yumi [13k\]: white could capture the stones at J
firtree [-\]: still can
firtree [-\]: no
]
;W[ee]
;B[dg]
;W[de]
;B[df]C[JackRogers [16k\]: whit fucked up
firtree [-\]: please watch your language on KGS
JackRogers [16k\]: my apologies
]
;W[rd]C[klausP [9d?\]: Jack, did u count?
]
;B[re]C[JackRogers [16k\]: was only refering to the stones j17-19, after yumi pointed it out
klausP [9d?\]: ah ok
firtree [-\]: J17-19 is big
klausP [9d?\]: yes
firtree [-\]: because after them, F16 could survive
]
;W[sc]C[firtree [-\]: and white could have won
]
;B[rc]C[klausP [9d?\]: white could have captured a long time ago
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: Proabably would have barring a big mistake on white's part
]
;W[ra]C[klausP [9d?\]: the corner is seki now
]
;B[sd]C[klausP [9d?\]: with t18
firtree [-\]: both players didn not pay attention to that J19 part for a long time )))
klausP [9d?\]: thats normal on this level
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: I was just reading about this type of seki
firtree [-\]: i am looking forward for 9d review of this game )))
klausP [9d?\]: i wonder if w will find it
klausP [9d?\]: its not easy to spot this kind of seki if you dont know it
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: It feels like the natural move
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: extand from atari
firtree [-\]: only if you know that seki is possible
klausP [9d?\]: but its like: you eather know it or you dont
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: I can see that
firtree [-\]: after a hint, i can too )))
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: Hmm, the seki might win it for white
fabi [19k\]: hm
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: Though I am still not the best at counting
firtree [-\]: don't forget S8
JackRogers [16k\]: s8 invasion 
JackRogers [16k\]: lol
klausP [9d?\]: s7 is bigger
klausP [9d?\]: i mean r7
klausP [9d?\]: sara is getting stronger by watching
firtree [-\]: 2 points bigger?
tabby11 [20k\]: i guess upper right corner is alive
tabby11 [20k\]: it can't be killed any more
fabi [19k\]: i like to think one more minuit about it
tabby11 [20k\]: ok
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: talking your oppenent into a move. lol
]
;W[sb]C[fabi [19k\]: experiment
klausP [9d?\]: well it is hard to wait in a game without time
]
;B[rm]
;W[nj]C[klausP [9d?\]: interesting, w found the move but the word "experiment" expresses he is not sure about the result
tabby11 [20k\]: that one is dead
JackRogers [16k\]: in chinese scoring, how is a seki evaluated
tabby11 [20k\]: i've cruelly abandoned it
tabby11 [20k\]: 'cause i thought i can't save them anymore
klausP [9d?\]: both sides live and s16 and t19 are points I think
JackRogers [16k\]: thanks
klausP [9d?\]: did someone bother to count?
]
;B[ed]C[firtree [-\]: found the last part, 10 points bigger
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: count what?
firtree [-\]: i just use auto-estimate )
]
;W[rp]
;B[sp]C[klausP [9d?\]: does not work in chin scoring
]
;W[ro]
;B[rn]C[JackRogers [16k\]: black ahead by about 10
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: I've never played by chinese tules
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: *rules
]
;W[dc]C[KiyoshiR13 [-\]: What are the significant differenaces?
JackRogers [16k\]: living stones are points in chinese
]
;B[ec]
;W[cd]C[JackRogers [16k\]: in japanese, only territories are points
klausP [9d?\]: just a bug
]
;B[cc]C[firtree [-\]: plays into your territory are not punished, neutral boints are to be filled
klausP [9d?\]: score estimator could easyly count chin too
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: What about captured/dead stones?
JackRogers [16k\]: dont affect score
JackRogers [16k\]: as far as i know?
JackRogers [16k\]: may be wrong on that
firtree [-\]: passes are punished 0_0
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: Would that change the outcome of a game?
JackRogers [16k\]: it can
firtree [-\]: only a little usually
]
;W[bc]
;B[bd]
;W[cb]C[klausP [9d?\]: i lost a game in a go saloon in Bejing with 0.5, which would have been won in Japan scoring
]
;B[db]
;W[]
;B[]TW[ma][na][sa][lb][nb][ob][mc][nd][od][ne][oe][of][oh][qh][rh][gi][mi][ni][oi][pi][hj][ij][jj][kj][mj][oj][pj][gk][hk][ik][jk][kk][mk][nk][ok][fl][gl][hl][il][jl][kl][nl][gm][hm][im][jm][km][lm][mm][gn][hn][in][jn][kn][ln][mn][fo][go][ho][io][jo][ko][lo][mo][fp][gp][hp][ip][kp][lp][mp][np][op][gq][hq][iq][jq][kq][lq][mq][nq][oq][jr][kr][lr][mr][nr][or][js][ks][ls][ms][ns][os]TB[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ha][ab][bb][cb][eb][fb][gb][hb][ac][bc][dc][hc][ad][cd][fd][gd][hd][id][rd][ae][be][de][ee][fe][he][je][ke][af][bf][cf][ff][jf][kf][ag][bg][cg][eg][ig][ah][bh][ch][ai][bi][ci][di][aj][bj][cj][ak][bk][sk][al][bl][cl][rl][sl][am][bm][dm][qm][sm][dn][qn][sn][ao][bo][ro][so][bp][rp][sq][br][dr][rr][as][bs][cs][es][ss]C[JackRogers [16k\]: p16 dead
firtree [-\]: which would have been in Beijing in japanese scoring )))
fabi [19k\]: Im not sure with the area around  s17 
klausP [9d?\]: of course they count chin in Bejing
JackRogers [16k\]: n11 dead
JackRogers [16k\]: right on the money, black 10 points ahead
jinjitsu [4k\]: the corner up there is seki?
tabby11 [20k\]: hmm
firtree [-\]: joke was about 'Bejing' vs 'Beijing'
klausP [9d?\]: ,aaah
tabby11 [20k\]: i'm quite certain it's alive but of course i may be wrong
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: It is seki
JackRogers [16k\]: seki
JackRogers [16k\]: white not dead
fabi [19k\]: seki
JackRogers [16k\]: black moves s 18, white captures with s16
tabby11 [20k\]: ah
tabby11 [20k\]: so both are alive
tabby11 [20k\]: yeah now i get it
JackRogers [16k\]: damn, my count is off then
JackRogers [16k\]: lol
JackRogers [16k\]: good game guys
JackRogers [16k\]: or gals
klausP [9d?\]: yes
fabi [19k\]: thx
firtree [-\]: so close
klausP [9d?\]: thisis a game to be proud of for both
fabi [19k\]: Great game
klausP [9d?\]: so long concentrated
tabby11 [20k\]: um how about the upper right corner
klausP [9d?\]: it is seki
klausP [9d?\]: just the way you marked it
tabby11 [20k\]: wow i've never had that in my games
JackRogers [16k\]: and now you have
KiyoshiR13 [-\]: lol
klausP [9d?\]: great game fabi!
fabi [19k\]: Thank you very much!
klausP [9d?\]: well done
firtree [-\]: 9d review!
])
(;W[rg]))
(;W[rq]))
