(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Finnish8d]PB[GoSuGo]BR[4d]DT[2014-11-23]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[GoSuGo [4d\]: Hi
]RE[W+Resign]
(;B[pd]C[Finnish8d [-\]: have a nice game! : )
GoSuGo [4d\]: u2 :P
]
;W[dc]
;B[qp]
;W[oq]
;B[dp]
;W[nc]
;B[pf]
;W[kd]
;B[lp]
;W[ql]
;B[op]
;W[qi]
;B[pq]
;W[cn]
;B[cl]
;W[cf]
;B[dn]
;W[do]
;B[eo]
;W[co]
;B[dm]
;W[cp]
;B[dq]
;W[cq]
(;B[dr]
;W[bl]
;B[bk]
;W[bm]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm, now after black d9 white isn't 100% alive in the corner
]
(;B[fn]
;W[fp]C[GoSuGo [4d\]: :<
]
;B[ep]
;W[jq]
;B[kq]
;W[jo]
;B[kn]
;W[im]C[Tien [-\]: Any reason for black not to do the usual c2 in the first place?
Tien [-\]: D2 would be picked when the left side is more interesting
Tien [-\]: But in this game, it should be nothing
Finnish8d [-\]: I guess the reason is he wants to gain a bit
Finnish8d [-\]: so leaving B2 possibility
Tien [-\]: To me black loses something if white just answers c2?
Finnish8d [-\]: I have considered, but then I didn't get B7, so it is a loss on the left
Tien [-\]: But left is nothing with c14 already there?
Finnish8d [-\]: so that is my 2nd choice, in case if B8 is not working
Tien [-\]: Alright
Tien [-\]: I'd just do c2 without thinking I guess
Finnish8d [-\]: true, but corner is also a small difference
Finnish8d [-\]: so both are small difference, I have no idea. :P
Tien [-\]: Hehe
Tien [-\]: Guess otherwise there's not much to say about this game
Tien [-\]: Ah, let me show what I expected?
Tien [-\]: For the corner
Finnish8d [-\]: sure
Finnish8d [-\]: your control now ^^
]
;B[jl]
;W[il]
;B[ik]
;W[hk]
;B[hj]
;W[jm]C[GoSuGo [4d\]: Thank
GoSuGo [4d\]: s
Finnish8d [-\]: ah ok?
Finnish8d [-\]: misclick or?
GoSuGo [4d\]: nah just not my game
GoSuGo [4d\]: I didnt like the position anyway
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok...
Finnish8d [-\]: Still normal until your K8 direct attacking
Tien [-\]: Jeff, is b8 a good idea?
Finnish8d [-\]: attacking normally needs a plan, or don't do it.
Tien [-\]: If black answers d9, your corner is not really alive yet
Finnish8d [-\]: it is
Finnish8d [-\]: I read it
])
(;B[dk]
;W[jq]
;B[br]
;W[cr]
;B[cs]C[Tien [-\]: So imagine no weakness at e4
]
;W[bq]
;B[bo]
;W[bn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah I don't plan to use
Tien [-\]: Ah, I see, b6, missed that :)
Tien [-\]: Ok, then nothing
Finnish8d [-\]: ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: I read it ,then did B8 :P
Tien [-\]: Hehe
Finnish8d [-\]: or I dare not
Tien [-\]: Right :)
]))
(;B[cr]
;W[br]
;B[dr]
;W[bm]
;B[bs]
;W[ar]
;B[ip]C[Tien [-\]: Something like this should be fun enough to black
Tien [-\]: Not sure if j4 or k4 is better, but probably nothing on the lower side now anyway
GoSuGo [4d\]: how about the top black group
Finnish8d [-\]: hehe, so force me to plan around E6
Tien [-\]: Small aji with f5, but nothing white can do for now
Tien [-\]: Yeah, but that's probably later
Tien [-\]: Well, top right black group is not strong, but cannot be attacked well
Tien [-\]: Never expect corner points with that
Finnish8d [-\]: not strong, not weak ^^
GoSuGo [4d\]: Didnt like it at all
Finnish8d [-\]: a weak group that is not easy to attack, leave it
GoSuGo [4d\]: how should I have played there?
Finnish8d [-\]: so b should leave it too
GoSuGo [4d\]: r8 looks so good
Tien [-\]: No way to always get a perfect result everywhere
Tien [-\]: There is nothing wrong with q16
GoSuGo [4d\]: yeah true :P
Tien [-\]: If you dislike r8, don't play m4 in the first place to let white on the right side
GoSuGo [4d\]: ok
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm this position could be annoying, I don't know my next.
Tien [-\]: Top right for now?
Tien [-\]: That seems the biggest
Tien [-\]: Q18 or so
Tien [-\]: See what black does
Finnish8d [-\]: ah just that
Tien [-\]: Then pick plan for the f5 region
Finnish8d [-\]: ok
Finnish8d [-\]: I might just defend top
Finnish8d [-\]: and I dislike it :P
Tien [-\]: Hmm, this is the position where the insei teachers would be "just attack first to see what you should next"
Tien [-\]: *should do next
Tien [-\]: ...I guess
Finnish8d [-\]: hehe I see ^^
Tien [-\]: But alright, if GoSuGo has no more questions, guess we'd concentrate on the remaining games
Finnish8d [-\]: right
GoSuGo [4d\]: ok
GoSuGo [4d\]: ty
]))
(;B[pf]C[Finnish8d [-\]: have a nice game! : )
]
;W[dd]
;B[dn]
;W[qp]
;B[op]
;W[pn]
;B[qq]
;W[rq]
;B[pq]
;W[ro]
;B[lp]
;W[eq]
(;B[cq]
;W[jq]C[Tien [-\]: That would seem more like black's game plan
Finnish8d [-\]: ah ok
Ootakamoku [3d\]: hmm, ok
Tien [-\]: So let white c4 and then maybe jump to g5
Ootakamoku [3d\]: right
Finnish8d [-\]: that will be tough to b
Tien [-\]: If white played j3 here, it would look like black is playing funny opening moves without a big picture
Finnish8d [-\]: the size is not big enough
Tien [-\]: Really? To me the shape seems perfect
]
;B[hq]
;W[jo]
;B[ho]C[Finnish8d [-\]: so in this picture
Ootakamoku [3d\]: should h3 be g3 instead?
Finnish8d [-\]: E3 is a bad exchange
Tien [-\]: In this picture, yes
Finnish8d [-\]: so you mean I shouldn't have done K3
Tien [-\]: I guess j3 is enough?
Finnish8d [-\]: I have considered J4
Tien [-\]: E4 is basically sente against the left side so that shape is 100% safe
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah that I know
Finnish8d [-\]: so ok K3 is emotional
Tien [-\]: And I guess black wants then l3 anyway?
Tien [-\]: Which doesn't make m4 feel particularly good
Finnish8d [-\]: alright
Ootakamoku [3d\]: so I should just submit to playing l3 instead of m4?
Finnish8d [-\]: M4 is fine
Tien [-\]: Well, that'd be normal, but m4 should be playable too
Ootakamoku [3d\]: ok
Tien [-\]: I was thinking g3 in answer to white e3
Ootakamoku [3d\]: I really should focus more on that when I play, but especially against jeff I find it difficult to play in a way that keeps my stones lookinghappy.
Finnish8d [-\]: because I know what you want : )
Tien [-\]: Hehe
Tien [-\]: Isn't it just m6 here?
Finnish8d [-\]: but well, this is a difficult situation to w
Finnish8d [-\]: I have to do something on E3 sooner or later
Tien [-\]: How does black do to m6?
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm probably I should
Finnish8d [-\]: I cannot catch up with you ^^
Tien [-\]: What else is there for white, as a shape?
]
(;W[lr]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: so I should m6 here directly?
Finnish8d [-\]: Tien, you'd better take over control maybe ^^
Tien [-\]: Kettu, but if black is let to easily run through at o6, white'll actually become weak then
]
;B[nn]
;W[ln]LB[ln:A][lr:B]TR[jo][lp][jq]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: ok, too paranioid on my part :(
Tien [-\]: Basically, in my eyes, there should be no way white wants both A and B as a shape
Tien [-\]: Because the nthe white shape as a whole becomes weak and thin
]
(;B[om]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ok
]
;W[ql]
;B[pm]
;W[qm]
;B[jn]
;W[in]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: uh
]
;B[io]
;W[ko]
;B[im]
;W[mq]
;B[mn]
;W[lm]TR[om][pm][mn]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, ugly moves
Tien [-\]: Right, so black got a lot of dame now
Tien [-\]: P7 is just the wrong shape, so can't be helped
]
;B[ml]
;W[nq]
;B[np]
;W[ll]
;B[mk]
;W[en]
;B[do]
;W[eo]
;B[dm]
;W[cr]
;B[em]
;W[bq]
;B[cp]
;W[dq]
;B[bp]C[Tien [-\]: What, here?
Tien [-\]: This is nothing, right?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, lose aji
Tien [-\]: If something, black fixes white's shape
]
;W[br]
(;B[fr]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ah hehe
Tien [-\]: Ah, right
Finnish8d [-\]: he wants to attack my bottom
Tien [-\]: Aha
]
;W[er]
;B[fq]
;W[fp]C[Finnish8d [-\]: should just tenuki right away
]
(;B[hn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah 
]
;W[cg]LB[fm:A]C[Tien [-\]: So in the game, A cut remains *and* white got c13
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah that exists still
Tien [-\]: Recipe for game over
]
;B[lo]
;W[kn]C[Tien [-\]: This white is just alive anyway, right?
Tien [-\]: How do you even attack it?
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Finnish8d [-\]: so I dare tenuki once again :P
Tien [-\]: K2?
Tien [-\]: Maybe a little something, but...
]
;B[jr]
;W[kq]
;B[lk]
;W[oc]C[Tien [-\]: Righty
Tien [-\]: Hmm, I might get out though :)
]
;B[ir]
;W[gp]
;B[iq]
;W[jl]
;B[kk]
;W[kl]
;B[ik]
;W[il]
;B[hl]
;W[jk]
;B[jj]
;W[ij]
;B[hk]
;W[ji]
;B[kj]
;W[jm]
;B[qc]
;W[lc]
;B[jc]
;W[ec]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: ...
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: suprised by the move, thinking what to do now
Finnish8d [-\]: ok?
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah Antti said we would finish this game at 12:20 then review the game
Ootakamoku [3d\]: sure
]
;B[ob]LB[je:A]C[Finnish8d [-\]: this is just wrong to me
Tien [-\]: Just black A, right?
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Ootakamoku [3d\]: sure
Tien [-\]: No touching to weak stones
Finnish8d [-\]: that is direction
]
;W[pb]
;B[pc]
;W[nb]
;B[od]
;W[nc]
;B[qb]
;W[oa]
;B[ke]
;W[qh]C[Tien [-\]: Ah, white is still trying hard :)
Tien [-\]: Anyway, I'd guess the game is over here by now
Finnish8d [-\]: I love this shape :P
Tien [-\]: Hehe
Finnish8d [-\]: ok ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: let's turn to yours
Tien [-\]: Righty
Tien [-\]: I'm saving this
Finnish8d [-\]: ok nice
]
;B[qj]
;W[oh]
;B[pk]
;W[rf]
;B[qe]
;W[mh]
;B[ng]
;W[nh]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: I guess its time
Trespasser [-\]: N.R.
Ootakamoku [3d\]: thx
Finnish8d [-\]: ah ok thanks
Finnish8d [-\]: well you don't have to resign, it is still a game, though I feel comfortable :P
Tien [-\]: Ok, let's see this first
Finnish8d [-\]: I always feel comfortable when under attack but I know it is alive :P
Finnish8d [-\]: ok
Finnish8d [-\]: My early game choice made it hard
Finnish8d [-\]: E3 shouldn't be done
Tien [-\]: Was there a problem?
])
(;B[gm]C[Tien [-\]: And defending is to jump, right?
Ootakamoku [3d\]: I wanted to take so I can have m5
Finnish8d [-\]: I didn't get why b wants F3
Finnish8d [-\]: if not that, b could have tenuki
Tien [-\]: What's m5?
]))
(;B[fn]C[Tien [-\]: I think I'd just fix
Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, actually there was a horrible missread involved
Finnish8d [-\]: ok, I prefer C14
Tien [-\]: Otherwise white g6 could be annoying later
])
(;B[cf]C[Tien [-\]: Yeah, probably fine too
]
;W[gn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah just take
Tien [-\]: I don't know what to do about the cut, but maybe it's fine
]
;B[hn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I will survive with it ^^
]
;W[fm]C[Tien [-\]: Alright
Finnish8d [-\]: just tenuki ^^
Tien [-\]: Tenuki means defend left side?
]
;B[dj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes
]
;W[fc]C[Tien [-\]: Yeah, black seems okay
Tien [-\]: Guess defending would be too slow
]))
(;B[nl]C[Kettu [?\]: agreed about Q14
Tien [-\]: So what would white do here?
Finnish8d [-\]: just follow
]
;W[pl]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: o5 dangerous very soon?
]
;B[lq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: hmm
Tien [-\]: O5 should never be a problem
Tien [-\]: Respond with p5-p6-n6
Ootakamoku [3d\]: oh
]
;W[mr]
;B[nq]C[Tien [-\]: This is tough for white to make shape, right?
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah and I defend back
]
;W[kq]
;B[jm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: j6
]
;W[in]
;B[hl]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah it should be tough to w
Tien [-\]: e3 will die a natural death now
]))
(;W[ln]C[Tien [-\]: The lower side around n2 is nothing anyway
Finnish8d [-\]: just like that M2 shape :P
Tien [-\]: Black can't go o6 now, either
]
;B[lq]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: painfull
Tien [-\]: Then k7, I suppose
]
;W[jm]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: and to keep balance I have to disable e3?
Finnish8d [-\]: This is something full of air...
Tien [-\]: Jump h7 maybe?
Finnish8d [-\]: I wish I know how to handle this w :P
Tien [-\]: You'll take the top right soon
Tien [-\]: The q6 and m6 stones make sure that black q14 is misplaced
Tien [-\]: About e3, can't be helped
Ootakamoku [3d\]: funny, jeff unhappy as white,  Iwould be unhappy as black
Kettu [?\]: here i feel its white
Tien [-\]: I think I'd pick this, still
Finnish8d [-\]: ok
Tien [-\]: This white shape is perfect
Tien [-\]: Nothing to worry about in the future
]
;B[hm]C[Kettu [?\]: i like black a little-teeny-weeny-bit more
Tien [-\]: K7 is a bit dull but I didn't find a better shape
Tien [-\]: Anyway white needs to fix that shape
Finnish8d [-\]: right
Finnish8d [-\]: that part cannot agree more
Tien [-\]: As the game goes, if to m6 black jumps to o8, what happens?
Kettu [?\]: is M6 good then
Tien [-\]: To me, white m6 and m2 don't work together at all then
Kettu [?\]: if K7 is needed anyway, and aji on lower side is lost
Tien [-\]: In this scenario, q14 looks much more misplaced
])
(;W[jm]C[Tien [-\]: Jump?
]
;B[mm]LB[pl:B][jm:A]C[Tien [-\]: So then black goes around here
Tien [-\]: Hmm, actually
Tien [-\]: This looks better for white?
Kettu [?\]: its annoying that black goes through, but i like white shape here more
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm, better than the earlier variation ^^
Tien [-\]: A bit difficult to say still
Kettu [?\]: now its kinda black with the bad aji
Kettu [?\]: :) ok
Tien [-\]: It's difficult to explain, but here A finds it hard to make shape
Tien [-\]: Without resorting to small moves like m2
Tien [-\]: Meanwhile, black B became a possible move later
Tien [-\]: The outside just looks too different
]))
(;B[gq]
;W[cp]
;B[go]C[Tien [-\]: You answer b6, right?
Kettu [?\]: this feels good with m4
Finnish8d [-\]: I may ^^  today I guess I will
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah it is
Tien [-\]: Nothing bigger on the board either
Finnish8d [-\]: but is bottom big enough as moyo? I doubt it
]
;W[bn]C[Tien [-\]: So far it's just a "structure"
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Tien [-\]: Not territory yet, but black's stones seem well-balanced
Tien [-\]: Nothing much to complain about in the shape
Tien [-\]: The white corner, on the other hand...
Tien [-\]: C3 later could be annoying
Kettu [?\]: white lower left seems funny :)
Tien [-\]: For now, anyway, upper side
Finnish8d [-\]: alright
Tien [-\]: This is just a game where "nothing happened yet"
Tien [-\]: If the black lower side becomes bad, that will be because of a later mistake
Finnish8d [-\]: ok : )
Tien [-\]: Well, let's try to save time and move on?
Finnish8d [-\]: shall we move on?
Finnish8d [-\]: sure
]))
(;B[pd]
;W[dp]
;B[pq]
;W[dc]
;B[fq]
;W[po]
;B[oo]
;W[on]
;B[no]
;W[pp]
;B[oq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: just extend like Q9
]
(;W[qq]
;B[pn]
;W[qn]
;B[pm]
;W[qm]
;B[pl]
;W[ql]C[Tien [-\]: Picked a potentially difficult joseki :)
Tien [-\]: Kettu played the easy way though
]
;B[pk]C[Finnish8d [-\]: w has to fight here
Tien [-\]: So you'd cut?
Tien [-\]: I guess you know what I was about to play then :)
Finnish8d [-\]: I wouldn't pick w this joseki
Tien [-\]: Right
Finnish8d [-\]: but here I guess no choice
Tien [-\]: So what would you do?
Tien [-\]: r3 in the first place?
Finnish8d [-\]: cut it
Finnish8d [-\]: I know what is coming, but I would cut it
]
(;W[qr]
;B[qo]
;W[qp]
;B[qk]C[Tien [-\]: Isn't this locally good for black?
Tien [-\]: Even taking the extra stone into account
Finnish8d [-\]: definitely
Finnish8d [-\]: especially b has stones on both sides
]
(;W[fo]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah, difficult to make territory there
]
;B[cq]
(;W[cp]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I guess F5 should have just been at D6, just wait
]
;B[dq]
;W[ep]
;B[eq]
;W[ho]LB[dk:A]C[Tien [-\]: Around A or so?
Finnish8d [-\]: as w logic
Finnish8d [-\]: I guess he probably shouldn't even do C4
Tien [-\]: True
]
;B[ci]
;W[ck]
;B[ce]
;W[cg]
;B[ee]
;W[fd]
;B[dh]
;W[cd]
;B[be]
;W[nc]
;B[pc]C[Kettu [?\]: plan was to consider O17 throwaway
Tien [-\]: But then why play it in the first place?
]
(;W[qf]C[Tien [-\]: R14 is probably among the most dangerous moves against an opponent like a Swedish 2d
Finnish8d [-\]: also here ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: have to be patient
Tien [-\]: You can win the game here, or you can well lose the game
Tien [-\]: Usually not worth it to gamble
Tien [-\]: And how is o17 throwaway over r14?
Tien [-\]: R14 is closer to thick stones (q9), ie. less valuable
Tien [-\]: And r14 is also in the narrower area, ie. less valuable
Kettu [?\]: i guess i just like these kinds of fights
]
;B[of]
;W[qi]
;B[rl]
;W[ro]
;B[oi]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[rd]
;B[rc]
;W[qd]
;B[qc]
;W[rh]
;B[hc]LB[lc:A]C[Tien [-\]: Now it's kind of like the black moyo just switched to the A area
Tien [-\]: And white can't really boast of having made more territory, either
]
;W[fb]
;B[kd]
;W[le]
;B[ld]
;W[ne]LB[pf:A]C[Tien [-\]: Then again, this sabaki was good :)
Tien [-\]: Black had to start with A
]
;B[me]
;W[md]
;B[mf]
;W[nf]
;B[ng]
;W[mg]
;B[lf]
;W[og]
;B[nh]
;W[oe]
(;B[ob]
;W[nb]
;B[kf]C[Kettu [?\]: i somehow thought R19 just doesn't work
Tien [-\]: R19 doesn't, yeah :)
]
;W[sc]
;B[sb]LB[rb:A]C[Tien [-\]: Did you get the status of this corner?
Kettu [?\]: i didnt think it dies
Kettu [?\]: because of Q15 stuff
Tien [-\]: That's if black plays it first
Tien [-\]: So this way, black's A move has already been prevented
Kettu [?\]: oops S19 :)
Kettu [?\]: its the move, anyways
Tien [-\]: With the s19 ko, this could be an interesting game
Tien [-\]: But if the black corner just lives, white has a hard time making up for the black outside influence
]
(;W[je]
;B[ke]
;W[ik]
;B[bc]
;W[hb]
;B[gc]
;W[gb]
;B[ic]
;W[fe]
;B[fc]
;W[ed]
;B[de]
;W[ec]
;B[ek]
;W[gk]
;B[bl]
;W[cl]
;B[bk]
;W[bm]
;B[cj]
;W[al]
;B[bj]
;W[dm]
;B[cb]
;W[db]
(;B[iq]C[Tien [-\]: Will black play f14 anyway?
]
(;W[fg]
;B[eh]
(;W[jh]LB[if:B][gi:A][kj:C]C[Tien [-\]: Are these moves valuable?
Kettu [?\]: trying to build something while creating future sente moves
Tien [-\]: (Forgetting s19 now)
Kettu [?\]: but i guess not that valuable
Tien [-\]: Build what, exactly?
Kettu [?\]: some points in the center
Tien [-\]: If you get A, B and C, you get almost ten points
]
;B[ra]
;W[oc]C[Kettu [?\]: i guess i valued P4 far far too highly
Tien [-\]: Oh right, the life even became sente
Tien [-\]: Well, it's not exactly small
Kettu [?\]: this was brainfart, thought it's sente :D
Tien [-\]: But black won't hurry to fix p4 anyway
]
;B[gp]
;W[fl]
;B[jo]
;W[op]
;B[np]
;W[nq]
;B[mq]
;W[nr]
;B[mr]
;W[or]
;B[kl]C[Tien [-\]: This way, white kind of "had to take it", black making more in the centre
]
;W[jf]
;B[jg]
;W[ig]
;B[kg]
;W[kk]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm, I guess the rest is not so important?
]
;B[lk]
;W[ll]
;B[km]
;W[mp]
;B[lp]
;W[lj]
;B[mk]
;W[mj]
;B[kj]
;W[jk]
;B[nj]
;W[lm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah and your control again ^^
]
;B[ml]LB[lj:B][kl:A]C[Kettu [?\]: just looking for an upset-veivi from here on
Tien [-\]: I guess finally it'll be something like this
Tien [-\]: I'll give up A and take B in exchange
]
(;W[mn]
;B[mo]
;W[kn]C[Kettu [?\]: N5 better?
])
(;W[mo]
;B[nn]
;W[nm]C[Tien [-\]: Ah, ths way
Tien [-\]: Hmm
]
;B[om]
;W[mn]
;B[on]C[Tien [-\]: How're the liberties?
Tien [-\]: Fine I guess, but not much of a difference anyway
Tien [-\]: (because of m3 cut)
]
;W[kn]
;B[mm]
;W[ln]
;B[jn]
;W[jm]
;B[ki]TR[jf][fg][jh]C[Tien [-\]: So just something like this
Tien [-\]: I guess I'd be most vary about moves like the triangled ones you played
Tien [-\]: As far as I can see, they don't really contribute to white's cause
Tien [-\]: If played too early on, you'll just late black get more points elsewhere, like the lower side
Tien [-\]: Thickness naturally makes the situation so that you won't want to play anything near it, because your moves won't affect the opponent
Kettu [?\]: yeah
Kettu [?\]: but F13 sente, was it bad too?
Kettu [?\]: i dont see a better play locally
Tien [-\]: Well, it might be fine, though I'd avoid it if possible
]))
(;W[jo]C[Tien [-\]: For now, here should be bigger, right?
Kettu [?\]: yeah, i somehow totally disregarded the bottom-center potential
Tien [-\]: Alright
]))
(;W[kp])
(;W[jo]LB[fg:D][ei:A][dj:B][ej:C]C[Tien [-\]: I'd go here immediately, I think
Tien [-\]: Locally, A could be a good shape poitn to take later
Tien [-\]: Or maybe white could fight with B-C-A if the situation later looks different
Kettu [?\]: true
Tien [-\]: If D is needed to defend the top-side white group, then it's fine
Tien [-\]: But if not, I'd leave it out too
Kettu [?\]: i thought its not needed, but takes away any black sente moves
Kettu [?\]: and makes w thick
Kettu [?\]: but i guess theres no real benefit in this case
Tien [-\]: Yeah, if black's moves around there are sente, then it's again fine
]))
(;B[fg]C[Tien [-\]: E19 huh
]
;W[ib]C[Tien [-\]: So if white crawls...
Tien [-\]: Hane looks hard to play
Tien [-\]: No, I think white is already alive
Kettu [?\]: yeah
Tien [-\]: As far as moves go, I'd rather take j18 than f13 I guess
Tien [-\]: But alright, let's finish here?
Kettu [?\]: alright
Kettu [?\]: thanks for the review
Tien [-\]: Thanks for the game
Kettu [?\]: and game
]))
(;W[ra]C[Tien [-\]: Now the corner is ko
]
;B[pe]
;W[pf]
;B[sd]
;W[re]C[Tien [-\]: All the sente here doesn't matter
]
;B[pa]
;W[na]C[Tien [-\]: For example like this, no preventing the ko
]
;B[oc]
;W[oa]C[Kettu [?\]: mm, i see
Kettu [?\]: missed this
]))
(;B[pe]
;W[pf]
;B[sd]C[Tien [-\]: This corner won't die
]
;W[re]
;B[ob]
;W[nb]
(;B[sc])
(;W[sc]
;B[rb]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm, wait
Tien [-\]: Yeah, I guess it's this?
Tien [-\]: Alive, just barely
Tien [-\]: Jeff's review is starting, I guess, so he can't follow any more
Finnish8d [-\]: ahh right
Finnish8d [-\]: so ok you may proceed
Tien [-\]: I'll do this, just about 5min more
Finnish8d [-\]: ok : )
])))
(;W[ne]C[Tien [-\]: How about jump?
Kettu [?\]: surely this is more reasonable :)
]
;B[pf]
;W[jd]LB[pf:A][pk:B]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ^^
Tien [-\]: And then upper side, if this happens
Tien [-\]: This is what you'd do against the Swedish opponent
Tien [-\]: ...A good scenario, anyway
Tien [-\]: Black's not particularly happy with A, as now the B thick group is "only" making territory
Tien [-\]: Of course it's efficient territory, but it's not ideal use for the B group
Tien [-\]: Ideal use for the B group is to force the opponent play as many moves near it as possible
]))
(;W[dq]
;B[cp]
;W[co]
;B[dr]
;W[er]
;B[cr]
;W[eq]
;B[bo]
;W[cn]
;B[bn]
;W[cm]LB[pm:B][cn:A]C[Tien [-\]: So this?
Finnish8d [-\]: just better than the game then :P
Tien [-\]: Yeah
Finnish8d [-\]: still not comfortable
Tien [-\]: Right, if mirroring the results, black clearly got the bigger chunk of the cake
Tien [-\]: Result A vs. result B
]))
(;W[cn]
;B[fo]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah sorry I meant D6
Finnish8d [-\]: higher
])
(;W[dn]
;B[fo]
;W[fm]LB[mq:A][nq:B][mr:C]C[Tien [-\]: And resist like this
Tien [-\]: That's more like it, yes
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Tien [-\]: Later, white A, black B, white C will live anyway
Tien [-\]: So the lower side is not quite so big as it looks
]))
(;W[op]
;B[np]C[Tien [-\]: I mean, you wouldn't pick this joseki?
Tien [-\]: So what would you pick instead?
Finnish8d [-\]: not hane R3
]
;W[nq]
;B[qr]C[Kettu [?\]: then went for the bad n boring
]
;W[rp]
;B[ro]C[Finnish8d [-\]: this choice is difficult itself
Tien [-\]: We'd get here if white cuts
Finnish8d [-\]: for b has stones on both sides and w has to fight
Tien [-\]: Right
Finnish8d [-\]: and yeah I know you want to say this ^^
Tien [-\]: The outside wall now would be just too good
Tien [-\]: So try to bear it?
Finnish8d [-\]: have to
]
;W[so]
;B[rq]
;W[qp]
;B[nr]
;W[mq]
;B[sr]
;W[mr]
;B[or]
;W[mn]
;B[nn]
;W[nm]
;B[mm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: difficult fight with F3 in background
Tien [-\]: Righty
Tien [-\]: And the ko aji at t4 is a pain, too
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Tien [-\]: So probably should sacrifice the cutting stones
]
;W[lm]
;B[ml]
;W[mp]
;B[om]
;W[mo]
;B[nl]
;W[hq]C[Tien [-\]: This if something, now losing r4 hurts less
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah easier way
Tien [-\]: Well, still with black r9 sente it's interesting
]))
(;W[pk]
;B[qq]
;W[qf]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah whole board first
Tien [-\]: Ok, simple way
Kettu [?\]: yeah i thought about this kind of stuff
])))
