(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2] RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50] PW[Finnish8d]PB[GoSuGo]BR[4d]DT[2014-11-23]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[GoSuGo [4d\]: Hi ]RE[W+Resign] (;B[pd]C[Finnish8d [-\]: have a nice game! : ) GoSuGo [4d\]: u2 :P ] ;W[dc] ;B[qp] ;W[oq] ;B[dp] ;W[nc] ;B[pf] ;W[kd] ;B[lp] ;W[ql] ;B[op] ;W[qi] ;B[pq] ;W[cn] ;B[cl] ;W[cf] ;B[dn] ;W[do] ;B[eo] ;W[co] ;B[dm] ;W[cp] ;B[dq] ;W[cq] (;B[dr] ;W[bl] ;B[bk] ;W[bm]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm, now after black d9 white isn't 100% alive in the corner ] (;B[fn] ;W[fp]C[GoSuGo [4d\]: :< ] ;B[ep] ;W[jq] ;B[kq] ;W[jo] ;B[kn] ;W[im]C[Tien [-\]: Any reason for black not to do the usual c2 in the first place? Tien [-\]: D2 would be picked when the left side is more interesting Tien [-\]: But in this game, it should be nothing Finnish8d [-\]: I guess the reason is he wants to gain a bit Finnish8d [-\]: so leaving B2 possibility Tien [-\]: To me black loses something if white just answers c2? Finnish8d [-\]: I have considered, but then I didn't get B7, so it is a loss on the left Tien [-\]: But left is nothing with c14 already there? Finnish8d [-\]: so that is my 2nd choice, in case if B8 is not working Tien [-\]: Alright Tien [-\]: I'd just do c2 without thinking I guess Finnish8d [-\]: true, but corner is also a small difference Finnish8d [-\]: so both are small difference, I have no idea. :P Tien [-\]: Hehe Tien [-\]: Guess otherwise there's not much to say about this game Tien [-\]: Ah, let me show what I expected? Tien [-\]: For the corner Finnish8d [-\]: sure Finnish8d [-\]: your control now ^^ ] ;B[jl] ;W[il] ;B[ik] ;W[hk] ;B[hj] ;W[jm]C[GoSuGo [4d\]: Thank GoSuGo [4d\]: s Finnish8d [-\]: ah ok? Finnish8d [-\]: misclick or? GoSuGo [4d\]: nah just not my game GoSuGo [4d\]: I didnt like the position anyway Finnish8d [-\]: Ok... Finnish8d [-\]: Still normal until your K8 direct attacking Tien [-\]: Jeff, is b8 a good idea? Finnish8d [-\]: attacking normally needs a plan, or don't do it. Tien [-\]: If black answers d9, your corner is not really alive yet Finnish8d [-\]: it is Finnish8d [-\]: I read it ]) (;B[dk] ;W[jq] ;B[br] ;W[cr] ;B[cs]C[Tien [-\]: So imagine no weakness at e4 ] ;W[bq] ;B[bo] ;W[bn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah I don't plan to use Tien [-\]: Ah, I see, b6, missed that :) Tien [-\]: Ok, then nothing Finnish8d [-\]: ^^ Finnish8d [-\]: I read it ,then did B8 :P Tien [-\]: Hehe Finnish8d [-\]: or I dare not Tien [-\]: Right :) ])) (;B[cr] ;W[br] ;B[dr] ;W[bm] ;B[bs] ;W[ar] ;B[ip]C[Tien [-\]: Something like this should be fun enough to black Tien [-\]: Not sure if j4 or k4 is better, but probably nothing on the lower side now anyway GoSuGo [4d\]: how about the top black group Finnish8d [-\]: hehe, so force me to plan around E6 Tien [-\]: Small aji with f5, but nothing white can do for now Tien [-\]: Yeah, but that's probably later Tien [-\]: Well, top right black group is not strong, but cannot be attacked well Tien [-\]: Never expect corner points with that Finnish8d [-\]: not strong, not weak ^^ GoSuGo [4d\]: Didnt like it at all Finnish8d [-\]: a weak group that is not easy to attack, leave it GoSuGo [4d\]: how should I have played there? Finnish8d [-\]: so b should leave it too GoSuGo [4d\]: r8 looks so good Tien [-\]: No way to always get a perfect result everywhere Tien [-\]: There is nothing wrong with q16 GoSuGo [4d\]: yeah true :P Tien [-\]: If you dislike r8, don't play m4 in the first place to let white on the right side GoSuGo [4d\]: ok Finnish8d [-\]: hmm this position could be annoying, I don't know my next. Tien [-\]: Top right for now? Tien [-\]: That seems the biggest Tien [-\]: Q18 or so Tien [-\]: See what black does Finnish8d [-\]: ah just that Tien [-\]: Then pick plan for the f5 region Finnish8d [-\]: ok Finnish8d [-\]: I might just defend top Finnish8d [-\]: and I dislike it :P Tien [-\]: Hmm, this is the position where the insei teachers would be "just attack first to see what you should next" Tien [-\]: *should do next Tien [-\]: ...I guess Finnish8d [-\]: hehe I see ^^ Tien [-\]: But alright, if GoSuGo has no more questions, guess we'd concentrate on the remaining games Finnish8d [-\]: right GoSuGo [4d\]: ok GoSuGo [4d\]: ty ])) (;B[pf]C[Finnish8d [-\]: have a nice game! : ) ] ;W[dd] ;B[dn] ;W[qp] ;B[op] ;W[pn] ;B[qq] ;W[rq] ;B[pq] ;W[ro] ;B[lp] ;W[eq] (;B[cq] ;W[jq]C[Tien [-\]: That would seem more like black's game plan Finnish8d [-\]: ah ok Ootakamoku [3d\]: hmm, ok Tien [-\]: So let white c4 and then maybe jump to g5 Ootakamoku [3d\]: right Finnish8d [-\]: that will be tough to b Tien [-\]: If white played j3 here, it would look like black is playing funny opening moves without a big picture Finnish8d [-\]: the size is not big enough Tien [-\]: Really? To me the shape seems perfect ] ;B[hq] ;W[jo] ;B[ho]C[Finnish8d [-\]: so in this picture Ootakamoku [3d\]: should h3 be g3 instead? Finnish8d [-\]: E3 is a bad exchange Tien [-\]: In this picture, yes Finnish8d [-\]: so you mean I shouldn't have done K3 Tien [-\]: I guess j3 is enough? Finnish8d [-\]: I have considered J4 Tien [-\]: E4 is basically sente against the left side so that shape is 100% safe Finnish8d [-\]: yeah that I know Finnish8d [-\]: so ok K3 is emotional Tien [-\]: And I guess black wants then l3 anyway? Tien [-\]: Which doesn't make m4 feel particularly good Finnish8d [-\]: alright Ootakamoku [3d\]: so I should just submit to playing l3 instead of m4? Finnish8d [-\]: M4 is fine Tien [-\]: Well, that'd be normal, but m4 should be playable too Ootakamoku [3d\]: ok Tien [-\]: I was thinking g3 in answer to white e3 Ootakamoku [3d\]: I really should focus more on that when I play, but especially against jeff I find it difficult to play in a way that keeps my stones lookinghappy. Finnish8d [-\]: because I know what you want : ) Tien [-\]: Hehe Tien [-\]: Isn't it just m6 here? Finnish8d [-\]: but well, this is a difficult situation to w Finnish8d [-\]: I have to do something on E3 sooner or later Tien [-\]: How does black do to m6? Finnish8d [-\]: hmm probably I should Finnish8d [-\]: I cannot catch up with you ^^ Tien [-\]: What else is there for white, as a shape? ] (;W[lr]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: so I should m6 here directly? Finnish8d [-\]: Tien, you'd better take over control maybe ^^ Tien [-\]: Kettu, but if black is let to easily run through at o6, white'll actually become weak then ] ;B[nn] ;W[ln]LB[ln:A][lr:B]TR[jo][lp][jq]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: ok, too paranioid on my part :( Tien [-\]: Basically, in my eyes, there should be no way white wants both A and B as a shape Tien [-\]: Because the nthe white shape as a whole becomes weak and thin ] (;B[om]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ok ] ;W[ql] ;B[pm] ;W[qm] ;B[jn] ;W[in]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: uh ] ;B[io] ;W[ko] ;B[im] ;W[mq] ;B[mn] ;W[lm]TR[om][pm][mn]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, ugly moves Tien [-\]: Right, so black got a lot of dame now Tien [-\]: P7 is just the wrong shape, so can't be helped ] ;B[ml] ;W[nq] ;B[np] ;W[ll] ;B[mk] ;W[en] ;B[do] ;W[eo] ;B[dm] ;W[cr] ;B[em] ;W[bq] ;B[cp] ;W[dq] ;B[bp]C[Tien [-\]: What, here? Tien [-\]: This is nothing, right? Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, lose aji Tien [-\]: If something, black fixes white's shape ] ;W[br] (;B[fr]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ah hehe Tien [-\]: Ah, right Finnish8d [-\]: he wants to attack my bottom Tien [-\]: Aha ] ;W[er] ;B[fq] ;W[fp]C[Finnish8d [-\]: should just tenuki right away ] (;B[hn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah ] ;W[cg]LB[fm:A]C[Tien [-\]: So in the game, A cut remains *and* white got c13 Finnish8d [-\]: yeah that exists still Tien [-\]: Recipe for game over ] ;B[lo] ;W[kn]C[Tien [-\]: This white is just alive anyway, right? Tien [-\]: How do you even attack it? Finnish8d [-\]: yeah Finnish8d [-\]: so I dare tenuki once again :P Tien [-\]: K2? Tien [-\]: Maybe a little something, but... ] ;B[jr] ;W[kq] ;B[lk] ;W[oc]C[Tien [-\]: Righty Tien [-\]: Hmm, I might get out though :) ] ;B[ir] ;W[gp] ;B[iq] ;W[jl] ;B[kk] ;W[kl] ;B[ik] ;W[il] ;B[hl] ;W[jk] ;B[jj] ;W[ij] ;B[hk] ;W[ji] ;B[kj] ;W[jm] ;B[qc] ;W[lc] ;B[jc] ;W[ec]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: ... Finnish8d [-\]: hmm? Ootakamoku [3d\]: suprised by the move, thinking what to do now Finnish8d [-\]: ok? Finnish8d [-\]: Ah Antti said we would finish this game at 12:20 then review the game Ootakamoku [3d\]: sure ] ;B[ob]LB[je:A]C[Finnish8d [-\]: this is just wrong to me Tien [-\]: Just black A, right? Finnish8d [-\]: yeah Ootakamoku [3d\]: sure Tien [-\]: No touching to weak stones Finnish8d [-\]: that is direction ] ;W[pb] ;B[pc] ;W[nb] ;B[od] ;W[nc] ;B[qb] ;W[oa] ;B[ke] ;W[qh]C[Tien [-\]: Ah, white is still trying hard :) Tien [-\]: Anyway, I'd guess the game is over here by now Finnish8d [-\]: I love this shape :P Tien [-\]: Hehe Finnish8d [-\]: ok ^^ Finnish8d [-\]: let's turn to yours Tien [-\]: Righty Tien [-\]: I'm saving this Finnish8d [-\]: ok nice ] ;B[qj] ;W[oh] ;B[pk] ;W[rf] ;B[qe] ;W[mh] ;B[ng] ;W[nh]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: I guess its time Trespasser [-\]: N.R. Ootakamoku [3d\]: thx Finnish8d [-\]: ah ok thanks Finnish8d [-\]: well you don't have to resign, it is still a game, though I feel comfortable :P Tien [-\]: Ok, let's see this first Finnish8d [-\]: I always feel comfortable when under attack but I know it is alive :P Finnish8d [-\]: ok Finnish8d [-\]: My early game choice made it hard Finnish8d [-\]: E3 shouldn't be done Tien [-\]: Was there a problem? ]) (;B[gm]C[Tien [-\]: And defending is to jump, right? Ootakamoku [3d\]: I wanted to take so I can have m5 Finnish8d [-\]: I didn't get why b wants F3 Finnish8d [-\]: if not that, b could have tenuki Tien [-\]: What's m5? ])) (;B[fn]C[Tien [-\]: I think I'd just fix Ootakamoku [3d\]: ya, actually there was a horrible missread involved Finnish8d [-\]: ok, I prefer C14 Tien [-\]: Otherwise white g6 could be annoying later ]) (;B[cf]C[Tien [-\]: Yeah, probably fine too ] ;W[gn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah just take Tien [-\]: I don't know what to do about the cut, but maybe it's fine ] ;B[hn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I will survive with it ^^ ] ;W[fm]C[Tien [-\]: Alright Finnish8d [-\]: just tenuki ^^ Tien [-\]: Tenuki means defend left side? ] ;B[dj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes ] ;W[fc]C[Tien [-\]: Yeah, black seems okay Tien [-\]: Guess defending would be too slow ])) (;B[nl]C[Kettu [?\]: agreed about Q14 Tien [-\]: So what would white do here? Finnish8d [-\]: just follow ] ;W[pl]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: o5 dangerous very soon? ] ;B[lq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: hmm Tien [-\]: O5 should never be a problem Tien [-\]: Respond with p5-p6-n6 Ootakamoku [3d\]: oh ] ;W[mr] ;B[nq]C[Tien [-\]: This is tough for white to make shape, right? Finnish8d [-\]: yeah and I defend back ] ;W[kq] ;B[jm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: j6 ] ;W[in] ;B[hl]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah it should be tough to w Tien [-\]: e3 will die a natural death now ])) (;W[ln]C[Tien [-\]: The lower side around n2 is nothing anyway Finnish8d [-\]: just like that M2 shape :P Tien [-\]: Black can't go o6 now, either ] ;B[lq]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: painfull Tien [-\]: Then k7, I suppose ] ;W[jm]C[Ootakamoku [3d\]: and to keep balance I have to disable e3? Finnish8d [-\]: This is something full of air... Tien [-\]: Jump h7 maybe? Finnish8d [-\]: I wish I know how to handle this w :P Tien [-\]: You'll take the top right soon Tien [-\]: The q6 and m6 stones make sure that black q14 is misplaced Tien [-\]: About e3, can't be helped Ootakamoku [3d\]: funny, jeff unhappy as white, Iwould be unhappy as black Kettu [?\]: here i feel its white Tien [-\]: I think I'd pick this, still Finnish8d [-\]: ok Tien [-\]: This white shape is perfect Tien [-\]: Nothing to worry about in the future ] ;B[hm]C[Kettu [?\]: i like black a little-teeny-weeny-bit more Tien [-\]: K7 is a bit dull but I didn't find a better shape Tien [-\]: Anyway white needs to fix that shape Finnish8d [-\]: right Finnish8d [-\]: that part cannot agree more Tien [-\]: As the game goes, if to m6 black jumps to o8, what happens? Kettu [?\]: is M6 good then Tien [-\]: To me, white m6 and m2 don't work together at all then Kettu [?\]: if K7 is needed anyway, and aji on lower side is lost Tien [-\]: In this scenario, q14 looks much more misplaced ]) (;W[jm]C[Tien [-\]: Jump? ] ;B[mm]LB[pl:B][jm:A]C[Tien [-\]: So then black goes around here Tien [-\]: Hmm, actually Tien [-\]: This looks better for white? Kettu [?\]: its annoying that black goes through, but i like white shape here more Finnish8d [-\]: hmm, better than the earlier variation ^^ Tien [-\]: A bit difficult to say still Kettu [?\]: now its kinda black with the bad aji Kettu [?\]: :) ok Tien [-\]: It's difficult to explain, but here A finds it hard to make shape Tien [-\]: Without resorting to small moves like m2 Tien [-\]: Meanwhile, black B became a possible move later Tien [-\]: The outside just looks too different ])) (;B[gq] ;W[cp] ;B[go]C[Tien [-\]: You answer b6, right? Kettu [?\]: this feels good with m4 Finnish8d [-\]: I may ^^ today I guess I will Finnish8d [-\]: yeah it is Tien [-\]: Nothing bigger on the board either Finnish8d [-\]: but is bottom big enough as moyo? I doubt it ] ;W[bn]C[Tien [-\]: So far it's just a "structure" Finnish8d [-\]: yeah Tien [-\]: Not territory yet, but black's stones seem well-balanced Tien [-\]: Nothing much to complain about in the shape Tien [-\]: The white corner, on the other hand... Tien [-\]: C3 later could be annoying Kettu [?\]: white lower left seems funny :) Tien [-\]: For now, anyway, upper side Finnish8d [-\]: alright Tien [-\]: This is just a game where "nothing happened yet" Tien [-\]: If the black lower side becomes bad, that will be because of a later mistake Finnish8d [-\]: ok : ) Tien [-\]: Well, let's try to save time and move on? Finnish8d [-\]: shall we move on? Finnish8d [-\]: sure ])) (;B[pd] ;W[dp] ;B[pq] ;W[dc] ;B[fq] ;W[po] ;B[oo] ;W[on] ;B[no] ;W[pp] ;B[oq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: just extend like Q9 ] (;W[qq] ;B[pn] ;W[qn] ;B[pm] ;W[qm] ;B[pl] ;W[ql]C[Tien [-\]: Picked a potentially difficult joseki :) Tien [-\]: Kettu played the easy way though ] ;B[pk]C[Finnish8d [-\]: w has to fight here Tien [-\]: So you'd cut? Tien [-\]: I guess you know what I was about to play then :) Finnish8d [-\]: I wouldn't pick w this joseki Tien [-\]: Right Finnish8d [-\]: but here I guess no choice Tien [-\]: So what would you do? Tien [-\]: r3 in the first place? Finnish8d [-\]: cut it Finnish8d [-\]: I know what is coming, but I would cut it ] (;W[qr] ;B[qo] ;W[qp] ;B[qk]C[Tien [-\]: Isn't this locally good for black? Tien [-\]: Even taking the extra stone into account Finnish8d [-\]: definitely Finnish8d [-\]: especially b has stones on both sides ] (;W[fo]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah, difficult to make territory there ] ;B[cq] (;W[cp]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I guess F5 should have just been at D6, just wait ] ;B[dq] ;W[ep] ;B[eq] ;W[ho]LB[dk:A]C[Tien [-\]: Around A or so? Finnish8d [-\]: as w logic Finnish8d [-\]: I guess he probably shouldn't even do C4 Tien [-\]: True ] ;B[ci] ;W[ck] ;B[ce] ;W[cg] ;B[ee] ;W[fd] ;B[dh] ;W[cd] ;B[be] ;W[nc] ;B[pc]C[Kettu [?\]: plan was to consider O17 throwaway Tien [-\]: But then why play it in the first place? ] (;W[qf]C[Tien [-\]: R14 is probably among the most dangerous moves against an opponent like a Swedish 2d Finnish8d [-\]: also here ^^ Finnish8d [-\]: have to be patient Tien [-\]: You can win the game here, or you can well lose the game Tien [-\]: Usually not worth it to gamble Tien [-\]: And how is o17 throwaway over r14? Tien [-\]: R14 is closer to thick stones (q9), ie. less valuable Tien [-\]: And r14 is also in the narrower area, ie. less valuable Kettu [?\]: i guess i just like these kinds of fights ] ;B[of] ;W[qi] ;B[rl] ;W[ro] ;B[oi] ;W[rj] ;B[rk] ;W[rd] ;B[rc] ;W[qd] ;B[qc] ;W[rh] ;B[hc]LB[lc:A]C[Tien [-\]: Now it's kind of like the black moyo just switched to the A area Tien [-\]: And white can't really boast of having made more territory, either ] ;W[fb] ;B[kd] ;W[le] ;B[ld] ;W[ne]LB[pf:A]C[Tien [-\]: Then again, this sabaki was good :) Tien [-\]: Black had to start with A ] ;B[me] ;W[md] ;B[mf] ;W[nf] ;B[ng] ;W[mg] ;B[lf] ;W[og] ;B[nh] ;W[oe] (;B[ob] ;W[nb] ;B[kf]C[Kettu [?\]: i somehow thought R19 just doesn't work Tien [-\]: R19 doesn't, yeah :) ] ;W[sc] ;B[sb]LB[rb:A]C[Tien [-\]: Did you get the status of this corner? Kettu [?\]: i didnt think it dies Kettu [?\]: because of Q15 stuff Tien [-\]: That's if black plays it first Tien [-\]: So this way, black's A move has already been prevented Kettu [?\]: oops S19 :) Kettu [?\]: its the move, anyways Tien [-\]: With the s19 ko, this could be an interesting game Tien [-\]: But if the black corner just lives, white has a hard time making up for the black outside influence ] (;W[je] ;B[ke] ;W[ik] ;B[bc] ;W[hb] ;B[gc] ;W[gb] ;B[ic] ;W[fe] ;B[fc] ;W[ed] ;B[de] ;W[ec] ;B[ek] ;W[gk] ;B[bl] ;W[cl] ;B[bk] ;W[bm] ;B[cj] ;W[al] ;B[bj] ;W[dm] ;B[cb] ;W[db] (;B[iq]C[Tien [-\]: Will black play f14 anyway? ] (;W[fg] ;B[eh] (;W[jh]LB[if:B][gi:A][kj:C]C[Tien [-\]: Are these moves valuable? Kettu [?\]: trying to build something while creating future sente moves Tien [-\]: (Forgetting s19 now) Kettu [?\]: but i guess not that valuable Tien [-\]: Build what, exactly? Kettu [?\]: some points in the center Tien [-\]: If you get A, B and C, you get almost ten points ] ;B[ra] ;W[oc]C[Kettu [?\]: i guess i valued P4 far far too highly Tien [-\]: Oh right, the life even became sente Tien [-\]: Well, it's not exactly small Kettu [?\]: this was brainfart, thought it's sente :D Tien [-\]: But black won't hurry to fix p4 anyway ] ;B[gp] ;W[fl] ;B[jo] ;W[op] ;B[np] ;W[nq] ;B[mq] ;W[nr] ;B[mr] ;W[or] ;B[kl]C[Tien [-\]: This way, white kind of "had to take it", black making more in the centre ] ;W[jf] ;B[jg] ;W[ig] ;B[kg] ;W[kk]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm, I guess the rest is not so important? ] ;B[lk] ;W[ll] ;B[km] ;W[mp] ;B[lp] ;W[lj] ;B[mk] ;W[mj] ;B[kj] ;W[jk] ;B[nj] ;W[lm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah and your control again ^^ ] ;B[ml]LB[lj:B][kl:A]C[Kettu [?\]: just looking for an upset-veivi from here on Tien [-\]: I guess finally it'll be something like this Tien [-\]: I'll give up A and take B in exchange ] (;W[mn] ;B[mo] ;W[kn]C[Kettu [?\]: N5 better? ]) (;W[mo] ;B[nn] ;W[nm]C[Tien [-\]: Ah, ths way Tien [-\]: Hmm ] ;B[om] ;W[mn] ;B[on]C[Tien [-\]: How're the liberties? Tien [-\]: Fine I guess, but not much of a difference anyway Tien [-\]: (because of m3 cut) ] ;W[kn] ;B[mm] ;W[ln] ;B[jn] ;W[jm] ;B[ki]TR[jf][fg][jh]C[Tien [-\]: So just something like this Tien [-\]: I guess I'd be most vary about moves like the triangled ones you played Tien [-\]: As far as I can see, they don't really contribute to white's cause Tien [-\]: If played too early on, you'll just late black get more points elsewhere, like the lower side Tien [-\]: Thickness naturally makes the situation so that you won't want to play anything near it, because your moves won't affect the opponent Kettu [?\]: yeah Kettu [?\]: but F13 sente, was it bad too? Kettu [?\]: i dont see a better play locally Tien [-\]: Well, it might be fine, though I'd avoid it if possible ])) (;W[jo]C[Tien [-\]: For now, here should be bigger, right? Kettu [?\]: yeah, i somehow totally disregarded the bottom-center potential Tien [-\]: Alright ])) (;W[kp]) (;W[jo]LB[fg:D][ei:A][dj:B][ej:C]C[Tien [-\]: I'd go here immediately, I think Tien [-\]: Locally, A could be a good shape poitn to take later Tien [-\]: Or maybe white could fight with B-C-A if the situation later looks different Kettu [?\]: true Tien [-\]: If D is needed to defend the top-side white group, then it's fine Tien [-\]: But if not, I'd leave it out too Kettu [?\]: i thought its not needed, but takes away any black sente moves Kettu [?\]: and makes w thick Kettu [?\]: but i guess theres no real benefit in this case Tien [-\]: Yeah, if black's moves around there are sente, then it's again fine ])) (;B[fg]C[Tien [-\]: E19 huh ] ;W[ib]C[Tien [-\]: So if white crawls... Tien [-\]: Hane looks hard to play Tien [-\]: No, I think white is already alive Kettu [?\]: yeah Tien [-\]: As far as moves go, I'd rather take j18 than f13 I guess Tien [-\]: But alright, let's finish here? Kettu [?\]: alright Kettu [?\]: thanks for the review Tien [-\]: Thanks for the game Kettu [?\]: and game ])) (;W[ra]C[Tien [-\]: Now the corner is ko ] ;B[pe] ;W[pf] ;B[sd] ;W[re]C[Tien [-\]: All the sente here doesn't matter ] ;B[pa] ;W[na]C[Tien [-\]: For example like this, no preventing the ko ] ;B[oc] ;W[oa]C[Kettu [?\]: mm, i see Kettu [?\]: missed this ])) (;B[pe] ;W[pf] ;B[sd]C[Tien [-\]: This corner won't die ] ;W[re] ;B[ob] ;W[nb] (;B[sc]) (;W[sc] ;B[rb]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm, wait Tien [-\]: Yeah, I guess it's this? Tien [-\]: Alive, just barely Tien [-\]: Jeff's review is starting, I guess, so he can't follow any more Finnish8d [-\]: ahh right Finnish8d [-\]: so ok you may proceed Tien [-\]: I'll do this, just about 5min more Finnish8d [-\]: ok : ) ]))) (;W[ne]C[Tien [-\]: How about jump? Kettu [?\]: surely this is more reasonable :) ] ;B[pf] ;W[jd]LB[pf:A][pk:B]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ^^ Tien [-\]: And then upper side, if this happens Tien [-\]: This is what you'd do against the Swedish opponent Tien [-\]: ...A good scenario, anyway Tien [-\]: Black's not particularly happy with A, as now the B thick group is "only" making territory Tien [-\]: Of course it's efficient territory, but it's not ideal use for the B group Tien [-\]: Ideal use for the B group is to force the opponent play as many moves near it as possible ])) (;W[dq] ;B[cp] ;W[co] ;B[dr] ;W[er] ;B[cr] ;W[eq] ;B[bo] ;W[cn] ;B[bn] ;W[cm]LB[pm:B][cn:A]C[Tien [-\]: So this? Finnish8d [-\]: just better than the game then :P Tien [-\]: Yeah Finnish8d [-\]: still not comfortable Tien [-\]: Right, if mirroring the results, black clearly got the bigger chunk of the cake Tien [-\]: Result A vs. result B ])) (;W[cn] ;B[fo]C[Tien [-\]: Hmm Finnish8d [-\]: Ah sorry I meant D6 Finnish8d [-\]: higher ]) (;W[dn] ;B[fo] ;W[fm]LB[mq:A][nq:B][mr:C]C[Tien [-\]: And resist like this Tien [-\]: That's more like it, yes Finnish8d [-\]: yeah Tien [-\]: Later, white A, black B, white C will live anyway Tien [-\]: So the lower side is not quite so big as it looks ])) (;W[op] ;B[np]C[Tien [-\]: I mean, you wouldn't pick this joseki? Tien [-\]: So what would you pick instead? Finnish8d [-\]: not hane R3 ] ;W[nq] ;B[qr]C[Kettu [?\]: then went for the bad n boring ] ;W[rp] ;B[ro]C[Finnish8d [-\]: this choice is difficult itself Tien [-\]: We'd get here if white cuts Finnish8d [-\]: for b has stones on both sides and w has to fight Tien [-\]: Right Finnish8d [-\]: and yeah I know you want to say this ^^ Tien [-\]: The outside wall now would be just too good Tien [-\]: So try to bear it? Finnish8d [-\]: have to ] ;W[so] ;B[rq] ;W[qp] ;B[nr] ;W[mq] ;B[sr] ;W[mr] ;B[or] ;W[mn] ;B[nn] ;W[nm] ;B[mm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: difficult fight with F3 in background Tien [-\]: Righty Tien [-\]: And the ko aji at t4 is a pain, too Finnish8d [-\]: yeah Tien [-\]: So probably should sacrifice the cutting stones ] ;W[lm] ;B[ml] ;W[mp] ;B[om] ;W[mo] ;B[nl] ;W[hq]C[Tien [-\]: This if something, now losing r4 hurts less Finnish8d [-\]: yeah easier way Tien [-\]: Well, still with black r9 sente it's interesting ])) (;W[pk] ;B[qq] ;W[qf]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah whole board first Tien [-\]: Ok, simple way Kettu [?\]: yeah i thought about this kind of stuff ])))