(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Veivi]PB[Finnish8d]WR[5d]DT[2015-01-18]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Veivi [5d\]: have a nice game
Finnish8d [-\]: Have a nice game! : )
]RE[B+Resign]
(;B[qd]
;W[dp]
;B[pq]
;W[oc]
;B[dd]
(;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[pf]
;B[qg]
(;W[fc]
;B[jd]C[Ten [?\]: I think I'd do the usual split anyway
]
(;W[dg]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm, let me check
]
(;B[fd]
;W[gd]
;B[fe]
;W[ec]
;B[dc]
;W[ge]
;B[df]
;W[cf]
;B[gf]
;W[ie]
;B[ce]
;W[ef]
;B[de]
(;W[hf]
;B[je]
(;W[gg]C[Veivi [5d\]: should w take K14 here
]
;B[ff]
(;W[fg]C[Finnish8d [-\]: just yose ^^
]
;B[jf]
;W[ig]C[Finnish8d [-\]: my choice does feel counter climate, now it looks like ^^
Ten [?\]: In the game, white probably invested a bit too much in the wall
Ten [?\]: And so fell back territorially
]
(;B[jg]C[Ten [?\]: Counter climate?
Finnish8d [-\]: I mean, top side is the focus
Finnish8d [-\]: and I am doing against this purpose
Ten [?\]: Ah, a bit yeah
Ten [?\]: Hmm, this pushing feels also a bit heavy
]
(;W[pg]
;B[qh]
;W[oi]
;B[ji]LB[jf:B][pf:A]C[Ten [?\]: Also, compare A and B, the black group is probably even stronger of the two
Ten [?\]: And white hardly got anything othe left either yet
Ten [?\]: *on the
]
;W[pj]
;B[qc]
;W[jk]
;B[ih]
;W[kh]
;B[ki]
;W[hh]
;B[lh]
;W[hk]
;B[id]
;W[he]
;B[cg]
;W[ch]
;B[bf]
;W[bg]
;B[fq]
;W[dq]
;B[co]
;W[cm]
;B[dm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: am I overplaying on the left? :P
Ten [?\]: C13 is probably too much, but I did order that of you :)
Ten [?\]: Slow and territorial
]
(;W[cl]C[Ten [?\]: Ah
]
;B[do]LB[dm:B][fq:A]C[Ten [?\]: Which one is the target again?
Finnish8d [-\]: I think B is
]
(;W[eo]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Ok ^^
Ten [?\]: White anyway has to do something like this
]
;B[en]
;W[fo]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm
]
;B[bq]
;W[br]
;B[bp]
;W[dr]C[Ten [?\]: Fine, not such a big difference :)
]
;B[dl]C[Finnish8d [-\]: but yeah I wouldn't like to comply to b either :P
]
;W[bn]C[Ten [?\]: Ok, the rest seems to be more about reading
Finnish8d [-\]: right
Ten [?\]: How about I let Jeff continue and me and Oota go back to the game?
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah sure ^^
Veivi [5d\]: sure thing
Ten [?\]: Alrighty
Veivi [5d\]: thanks
Finnish8d [-\]: Thanks ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: So to me this left that ko possibility already
Veivi [5d\]: yeah, i feel this is overplay
]
;B[gn]
;W[go]
;B[hn]
;W[ho]
;B[in]
;W[fn]
;B[fm]
;W[gm]
;B[ck]
(;W[bk]C[Veivi [5d\]: after this, w does not really have any room for compromise
]
;B[cj]
;W[bj]
;B[gl]C[Finnish8d [-\]: well
]
(;W[cf]C[Veivi [5d\]: i mean huge, but so much heavier for b
Finnish8d [-\]: right, and even if b wins, doesn't hurt w much
Veivi [5d\]: yea
Finnish8d [-\]: so I guess w should have faced to it
]
;B[jm]
(;W[jp]C[Veivi [5d\]: i just quickly thought "coming out with the 1 stone is ridiculous with ko around" ... which was not the case at all
Veivi [5d\]: but maybe J3 here?
Finnish8d [-\]: ^^  yeah need to look more into detail
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah a more proper shape
]
;B[hq]
(;W[io]
;B[jr]
(;W[kr]C[Ten [?\]: Quite the 長考
Finnish8d [-\]: I guess what I did in the game was overplaying
Finnish8d [-\]: cos I knew your K6 is sente
]
;B[jq]
;W[kq]
;B[kp]
(;W[mq]
;B[lp]
(;W[mp]
;B[jo]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Guess it is done after this
Veivi [5d\]: so now maybe all is lost
Veivi [5d\]: yeah
Finnish8d [-\]: Alright : )
Finnish8d [-\]: It is pretty interesting a game ^^
Veivi [5d\]: :)
Finnish8d [-\]: For the game on Tuesday, I suggest you may invest less at the start
Finnish8d [-\]: since the opponent loves solid stuffs
Finnish8d [-\]: so make him unhappy, more or less
Ten [?\]: Yeah, that sounds good
Finnish8d [-\]: Well alright, guess we may finish this one here then?
Veivi [5d\]: alright
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok : )  So let's turn to the other game, thanks. ^^
Veivi [5d\]: ye. thanks
]
;W[ip]
;B[ep]
;W[ko]
;B[lo]
;W[jn]
;B[kn]
;W[gr]
;B[hr]
;W[fp]
;B[fr]
;W[eq]
;B[gs]
;W[jo]
;B[lm]
;W[im]
;B[hm]
;W[il]
;B[hl]
;W[mn]
;B[ln]
;W[kl]
;B[km]
;W[mk]
;B[mo]
;W[no]
;B[nn]
;W[np]
;B[lk]
;W[lj]
;B[ml]
;W[on]
;B[mj]
;W[nk]
;B[jl]
;W[ik]
;B[kj]C[Veivi [5d\]: thanks for the game
Finnish8d [-\]: thanks ^^
Ten [?\]: Ah, so over here huh
Veivi [5d\]: so k4 too much?
Veivi [5d\]: or was the mistake later
Finnish8d [-\]: hehe there was a reading competition at bottom side
Finnish8d [-\]: Hmm, to me you could have gotten K6 at some point in sente for sure
Finnish8d [-\]: then I have no idea where it leads
Finnish8d [-\]: like
Veivi [5d\]: thought about it for a while yeah
])
(;W[jn]))
(;W[jn]C[Veivi [5d\]: that was part of why i took J5
Finnish8d [-\]: Get it
Finnish8d [-\]: so there is still timing issue, on k6
]))
(;W[jn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: probably this is the best
Ten [?\]: Should we review this together?
Ten [?\]: Right now, I mean, since we seem to have time
Finnish8d [-\]: Sure, but you are still in your game right?
Veivi [5d\]: i didn't see that you can sacrifice the 1 stone until i had already played n4
Finnish8d [-\]: Aha ok I see ^^
Ten [?\]: If Oota doesn't mind we can stop the game for a bit and review this for now
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, its fine by me
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok sure ^^
Ten [?\]: We'll start the other review at :35
Finnish8d [-\]: don't know what may happen if you do so now
Finnish8d [-\]: sure
Veivi [5d\]: i knew too, but realised the usefulness of it too late
Finnish8d [-\]: cos I am not sure if I dare atari
Finnish8d [-\]: this could be quite complicated
Veivi [5d\]: i thought like "i can get this anytime"
Veivi [5d\]: if needed
Finnish8d [-\]: aha I see ^^
]))
(;W[jr]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I wonder if w can do this
Veivi [5d\]: i dont see why not
Finnish8d [-\]: no immediate problem
Veivi [5d\]: but whats worrying is that i did not consider K2
Veivi [5d\]: at all
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah ok
Finnish8d [-\]: to me the choice was between K3 and K2
Finnish8d [-\]: and K2 is a better shape
Finnish8d [-\]: and my plan was like
]
;B[kq]
;W[jq]
;B[io]
;W[ip]
;B[hp]
;W[ep]
;B[kp]
;W[jo]
;B[ln]C[Finnish8d [-\]: so even if b dies, not a big deal
Veivi [5d\]: ya
]))
(;W[hq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: If it is me, I'd just do this
Finnish8d [-\]: but if so, the whole board could be negative
Finnish8d [-\]: so to be fair, b is leading after K7
Veivi [5d\]: yea
]))
(;W[hm]
;B[ci]
;W[bi]
;B[dh]
;W[cf]
;B[hl]
;W[im]
;B[cg]
;W[fl]C[Finnish8d [-\]: To me it is still possible for w to fight the ko
Finnish8d [-\]: since w left side is alive
Veivi [5d\]: yeah actually
Veivi [5d\]: now the ko is actually surprisingly small
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah
]))
(;W[fl]C[Finnish8d [-\]: how about trade it?
Veivi [5d\]: i think i lose if you play D10 now
Veivi [5d\]: on points
]
;B[dj]
;W[em]
;B[dn]
;W[np]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah sure, but b has in total like 50? 
Finnish8d [-\]: to me w bottom has huge potential
Finnish8d [-\]: in the game this is what I worried about
Veivi [5d\]: sure
Veivi [5d\]: hmm
Veivi [5d\]: maybe i discarded this too fast
Finnish8d [-\]: probably ^^
Veivi [5d\]: but also its all w points in one basket
Finnish8d [-\]: b doesn't have that much territory
Finnish8d [-\]: true ^^
]))
(;W[fp]C[Ten [?\]: So this side, no?
Finnish8d [-\]: he is afraid I will just E5
]
;B[eo]C[Finnish8d [-\]: and I will do that ^^
Veivi [5d\]: b for now, but the lower side is a secondary target maybe
]
;W[ep]C[Ten [?\]: Ok, brute force style
]
;B[bq]
;W[br]
;B[bp]
;W[cr]
;B[bn]))
(;W[do]
;B[cn]
;W[cl]
;B[dn]
;W[fo]C[Finnish8d [-\]: oh I see
Ten [?\]: Is this better?
Finnish8d [-\]: sure
Ten [?\]: Now black has to compromise somehow
Finnish8d [-\]: that is tough then
Veivi [5d\]: yeah
]))
(;W[ki]C[Ten [?\]: Can I go here?
Veivi [5d\]: whoa.. i considered K11, but not this one
Finnish8d [-\]: hehe same here ^^
]
;B[jh]
;W[ij]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ok looks nice ^^
Ten [?\]: Kind of double hane idea, but not making black as strong
])
(;W[jh]
;B[kh]
;W[ki]LB[pg:A]C[Ten [?\]: Normally I feel I'd want to do this
Ootakamoku [2d\]: should/could b ask j16 before this?
Ten [?\]: But it starts looking more likely that black will get to A now
Ten [?\]: J16 to me is nothing
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok
Ten [?\]: I don't see anything on the upper side for either player anyway
Veivi [5d\]: j16 is not that pressing without b j12 stone
]))
(;B[kh]C[Ten [?\]: Isn't keima the shape?
Ten [?\]: So white answers keima?
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah just in the game I wanted to get both J12 and J16 :P
Ten [?\]: Ah, haha
]))
(;W[jf]
;B[kf]C[Veivi [5d\]: double?
]
;W[kg]C[Veivi [5d\]: not to kill, but to press more
Ten [?\]: Right
Ten [?\]: Thinking about it...
Ten [?\]: The shape is a bit worrisome
Ten [?\]: But fine so far, huh
Finnish8d [-\]: to me it is fine to b
Finnish8d [-\]: just atari atari
]
;B[jg]
;W[if]
;B[lg]
;W[kh]
;B[le]C[Finnish8d [-\]: tiger
Veivi [5d\]: but if w can return to F13 anyway
]
;W[lh]
;B[mg]
;W[pg]
;B[qh]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah it is better for the left, probably worse to the right though
]
;W[mh]
;B[ng]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm, yeah, white is thin there
Ten [?\]: Now, if it was me...
]))
(;W[jf]
;B[kf]C[Ten [?\]: How to continue?
Veivi [5d\]: maybe after G13
]))
(;W[je]LB[ff:B][hf:A][cg:D][eg:C]C[Ten [?\]: Somehow I feel like pressing
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah that is what I worried about
Ten [?\]: Because, if you think about it, black's corner is really solid
Ten [?\]: White needs A and B and something to fix C, and even then, the cut to D remains
Ten [?\]: So white needs to invest really a lot in that wall
Veivi [5d\]: yeah, i like it
Ten [?\]: Meanwhile black will get out and reduce all of the top
Ten [?\]: And q15 could even become weak
]
;B[ld]LB[ff:A][dk:B]C[Ten [?\]: Imagine some result on the top, black lives
Ten [?\]: And white g16 becomes strong
Ten [?\]: I still won't think about A
Ten [?\]: If something on the left, I'll play around B first
Ten [?\]: And maybe after that slowly start thinking about A
Ten [?\]: If the game really looks suitable for it
]
;W[lf]C[Veivi [5d\]: agree
Ten [?\]: Well, of course, black won't even live easily
]))
(;B[ee]C[Ten [?\]: Veivi, what if I play here?
Finnish8d [-\]: I don't know modern criteria, as my criteria F17 is too much to ask
Ootakamoku [2d\]: could someone explains the principal reasoning behind d13?
Veivi [5d\]: i will split somehow
Ten [?\]: Oota, I'm currently trying to figure out
Ten [?\]: Like h16?
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah ok, then I'd simply kosumi ^^
Veivi [5d\]: but when i played D13, i was 100% sure F16 will follow
Veivi [5d\]: maybe that was oversure by a lot :D
Ten [?\]: 100% sure? But f16 should be the rare joseki move
Ten [?\]: Usually e15 or maybe e17
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe at mine it was 50/50 chance ^^  I felt like to press in the game just
]
(;W[cc]C[Ten [?\]: Hehe
Veivi [5d\]: black did play it though :P
Ten [?\]: Joseki should be here, but I don't think white is too happy here
]
;B[dc]
;W[db]
;B[eb]
;W[bb]
;B[da]
;W[cb]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes
]
;B[ec]
;W[cf]C[Veivi [5d\]: what if i try H15
]
;B[mc])
(;W[he]C[Finnish8d [-\]: that is possible
]
;B[ec]
;W[fd]
;B[ff]LB[dg:A]C[Ten [?\]: Something like this?
Veivi [5d\]: sure
Finnish8d [-\]: I would have just kosumi towards the centre ^^
Ten [?\]: Question is, what is A?
Ten [?\]: It seems like white wants to attack the top
Ten [?\]: But A in addition seems like juggling two at the same time
Veivi [5d\]: to me, A is a saddle on a horse (back corner group), to gallop towards attacking K16 stone :)
]
;W[hg]
;B[fh]C[Ten [?\]: It'll be something like this, right?
Veivi [5d\]: that's why i originally played it anyway, felt like if i just split without anything, it's not that good
Ten [?\]: White needs to try really hard that d13 doesn't get badly hurt
Ootakamoku [2d\]: because of the q15 stones, f17 stone should never become heavy? either needs to become thick or be sacrificed? or am I thinking about it the wrong way? from that perspective w is ok with this?
Veivi [5d\]: yeah, i can see the problems here
])))
(;W[fe]
;B[df]C[Ten [?\]: If k14 now is too much...
Ten [?\]: Hmm
Mokki [?\]: M17 here?
]
(;W[ch]C[Veivi [5d\]: jump 1 more?
Ten [?\]: If like this then?
Ten [?\]: Jump one more might be too
])
(;W[fg]C[Ten [?\]: Maybe this is simpler to understand
Ten [?\]: M17 is not a move that white really wants to play
Ten [?\]: Something like overconcentrated shape
Mokki [?\]: ok
Ten [?\]: Of course black n17 can be annoying, but white m17 is not the way to prevent that
Ten [?\]: If white has to play m17, then it was best not to play q15 etc. in the first place
]
;B[dh]
;W[jf]
;B[mc]C[Ten [?\]: Jeff, so something like this?
Finnish8d [-\]: sure
Ten [?\]: Right
Finnish8d [-\]: and I like this b ^^
Ten [?\]: Guessed so :)
Ten [?\]: I think it'll be a long game
Ten [?\]: But white has to be careful about where to get points
])))
(;W[jc]C[Ten [?\]: So Jeff suggested just here?
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah that is standard
Veivi [5d\]: this was my first option too
Veivi [5d\]: but i somehow wanted to play faster
Veivi [5d\]: speedy moves
Ten [?\]: Then...
]))
(;W[fc]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes
Ten [?\]: How about approaching first?
Finnish8d [-\]: that is possible ^^
Veivi [5d\]: yeah
Ten [?\]: This way it's harder for black to prevent the plan
Ten [?\]: Q15 etc. will always be sente, and black always answers the same way
Finnish8d [-\]: and I will just answer as b
Veivi [5d\]: yeh, this is a lot better
]
(;B[jd]C[Ten [?\]: And if black split now, then white need not play q15 etc.
Ten [?\]: So no investment there
])
(;B[cf]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[pf]
;B[qg]
;W[jd]C[Ten [?\]: So then we get this, I guess
Veivi [5d\]: i guess the problem was that i changed my plan mid-sequence
Finnish8d [-\]: right
Ten [?\]: Ok, forward
])))
(;B[pf]C[W: Antti Törmänen 7 dan
B: Henry Hemming 2 dan

Ootakamoku [2d\]: thx :)
]
;W[dp]
;B[np]
;W[dd]
;B[fq]
;W[cn]
;B[fc]
;W[df]
;B[kc]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: I got suprised way too many times by moves that I didnt expect
Ten [?\]: Hmm, and I tried hard not to play anything strange
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe that is normal ^^
]
;W[qp]C[Ten [?\]: And also to defend instead of attacking
]
;B[qq]
;W[pq]
;B[pp]
;W[pr]
;B[qr]
;W[rr]
;B[rq]
;W[op]
;B[po]
;W[oo]
;B[qo]
;W[nq]
(;B[on]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Hane here hurts...
]
;W[no]C[Ten [?\]: I mean, I understand what Oota wants, but there's no way to just force the result you want
]
(;B[nn]C[Ten [?\]: Yes, but thought I'd try to explain some basic theory
Finnish8d [-\]: Right, still need to play reasonably
Ten [?\]: As per Oota's planning, after white n5, black needs r16
Ten [?\]: Ah, but I'll let Jeff have the reins
]
;W[mo]C[Pempu [3d\]: Tää tuntuu jotenkin paremmalta mustalle. Nyt musta saa pelata ensin vaikka J3
Pempu [3d\]: muodot on kyl vähän avoimet :)
Gardan [-\]: aika ootamainen peli
Finnish8d [-\]: it is ok ^^
]
;B[ip]C[Pempu [3d\]: mikäköhän idea tossa korkeassa jutussa on. 
Gardan [-\]: e3 f4 l3 on vahan liian kiva valkealle (tai jokin vielakin ikavampi(
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, I did change my plan halfway trough.. original plan was q17 
Finnish8d [-\]: Oh ok I get Antti now
Finnish8d [-\]: this J4 is counter your own plan, right?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya
Ootakamoku [2d\]: changed my mind here
Finnish8d [-\]: so if b put emphasis on the right side, then F3 is an individual outside of the plan
Finnish8d [-\]: cannot care on him
Ten [?\]: Was my thinking, anyway
Ten [?\]: Black clearly wants to attack something
Ten [?\]: So we first have to create a situation where white has to get a weak group
Ten [?\]: Black can't just try and attack p4
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya
Ten [?\]: For forcing white to create a weak group, something like black r16 looks good to me
Ten [?\]: That makes it hard for white to pick the side
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok
Finnish8d [-\]: Oota: it shouldn't become a habit, that 6-4 is left open for the opponent to invade
Finnish8d [-\]: that period of time is gone
Finnish8d [-\]: when you need to add a move there, you do
Ootakamoku [2d\]: sure
]
;W[qh]C[Gardan [-\]: jotan en siis osaa ny arpoa
Finnish8d [-\]: ok this is a tough game to b for sure
Ootakamoku [2d\]: here I thought naively w would play l3 to prevent b m3
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah L3 is way too small
Ten [?\]: Right, that's the strongest group in the world, nobody wants to play close to it
Finnish8d [-\]: considered how strong w is at bottom
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok
]
(;B[qf]C[Pempu [3d\]: r14 on kyl törkeän ahne
Pempu [3d\]: ite oisin pelannu r10 
Pempu [3d\]: ihanaa yrittää tappaa jotain p17  invaasiota
Pempu [3d\]: tai hmm q17 
Ten [?\]: Black m3 is no issue since to attack, black has to play n4
Ten [?\]: And black never wants to play it
Finnish8d [-\]: this pillar is neither
Finnish8d [-\]: corner is still open, and Q6 is a problem very soon
]
;W[qk]
;B[lq]C[Gardan [-\]: mut kuinka isolla invaasiot saa sit tapettua ? riitttaako p16 avuksi  sinne
Ten [?\]: Yeah, q7 would normally be cut
]
;W[qm]C[Pempu [3d\]: en usko 
Pempu [3d\]: siellä on niin paljon tilaa
Pempu [3d\]: nyt tykkään valkosesta taas. 
Pempu [3d\]: alueen rakentaminen tonne alalaitaan oli jotenkin outoa ku vertaa miten fuseki meni
Ten [?\]: Wanted to see what'd happen with the peep
Finnish8d [-\]: ok ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah I see ^^
]
(;B[ps]LB[pn:A][rn:B]C[Gardan [-\]: ryhmien stabilointi kylla auttaa valkeaa
Pempu [3d\]: q6 leikkauksen antaminenkin on vähän outoa
Ten [?\]: Actually black's just answering is fine :)
Finnish8d [-\]: right
Finnish8d [-\]: so what is this?
Finnish8d [-\]: I don't get it sorry
Ten [?\]: That needs an answer, yes
Ootakamoku [2d\]: oh
Finnish8d [-\]: ok I kind of get it myself
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but if I answer, my group is 1 eyed?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and w strong on both sides
Finnish8d [-\]: but no w bottom will not be threatened
Ten [?\]: The black group will never be in trouble
Ten [?\]: It has at least one eye and is out to the centre
Ten [?\]: I actually think it has two
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah b has 2 eyes
Finnish8d [-\]: or
Finnish8d [-\]: they are miai
Finnish8d [-\]: so b is fine
]
;W[os]
;B[qs]
;W[pn]
;B[qn]
;W[pm]C[Pempu [3d\]: ihana fiilis juosta noilla leikkaavilla kivillä...
Pempu [3d\]: ja toi nurkka on ihan kökkö
Gardan [-\]: r9 on tosi vahva joten q14 on orvon oloinen
]
;B[mm]
;W[ko]C[Pempu [3d\]: l5 k3 n9 l7 k6 
Finnish8d [-\]: life is too difficult to b
Finnish8d [-\]: there is only 1 'target'
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya
Finnish8d [-\]: and b itself is a target too
]
;B[jq]C[Pempu [3d\]: taii hmm varmaan parempi puskea toiseen suuntaan tota ryhmää
]
;W[km]C[Gardan [-\]: idealla saada jotain N12 paikkeille tukemaan nurkkainvaasiota ?
Pempu [3d\]: joo ja l7  toimii paremmin tonne vasemmalle
Gardan [-\]: mika tarkoittaisi ettei sinne muodostuisi oikein mitaan potentiaalia
Ootakamoku [2d\]: :(
Ten [?\]: Iron defense of the insei
Gardan [-\]: melkein pitaisi vaan heittaa toi 15p noista kivista roskiin  .. niiden pelastamisella ei saavuta mitaan
Pempu [3d\]: joo ne on ihan turhia kiviä jo
]
;B[pj]
;W[qj]
;B[kk]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: here I thought w would capture the cutting stones..
Ten [?\]: L9 had to be q12 no matter what
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah sure
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I thought you would capture the cutting stones, and then I get back to q12
Finnish8d [-\]: But Oota, you have to face to reality
Finnish8d [-\]: so w bottom is not weak
Finnish8d [-\]: b cap is to refuse to accept this reality
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe I see
Ten [?\]: The meaning of a single move, without additional plans
Finnish8d [-\]: the problem is
Ten [?\]: Since l9, no matter what, is an attacking move
Ten [?\]: Or a pressuring one
Finnish8d [-\]: the cutting stones are not big, since w is strong on both sides
Ten [?\]: The actual problem is that if the opponent was another 2-3d, they'd play m8
Finnish8d [-\]: your plan makes sense, if w bottom is weak
Finnish8d [-\]: yes exactly
Finnish8d [-\]: then Oota plan works
Ten [?\]: Right
]
;W[oh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: ...
Pempu [3d\]: "it is not the strongest move" "he is testing my strenght"
Ootakamoku [2d\]: uijuijui kun tää seuraava siirto kallis sijoitus..
Pempu [3d\]: oiskohan m8  vaan paras :)
]
;B[ng]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: and next move I thought I Would get an answer
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and again suprised
Finnish8d [-\]: I may say this is also not accepting the reality
Finnish8d [-\]: but, I already have no idea how to deal with this b situation
Ten [?\]: Now that I think about it, 3-3 lives doesn't it
Finnish8d [-\]: I will choose 3-4, but 3-3 works sure
]
;W[ld]C[Ten [?\]: I felt mildly annoyed at 3-4 because it could get under attack
Ten [?\]: So just went with the simple shoulder hit
Ten [?\]: But probably 3-4 is more like it, yeah
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe ok
]
;B[kd]
;W[le]
(;B[od]C[Ten [?\]: With that size and one more move to play, white should be acceptable enough
Ten [?\]: The whole white game was basically looking for an "acceptable" result :)
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe sure
Ootakamoku [2d\]: felt like it too
Finnish8d [-\]: w was leading by a lot after bottom right
]
;W[lc]C[Finnish8d [-\]: so this way the corner is still kinda empty, but top side got hurt
]
;B[ke]
;W[lf]
;B[jg]
;W[lh]
;B[mi]
;W[li]
;B[mj]
;W[ob]
;B[pc]
;W[ji]
;B[lm]
;W[rm]
;B[ro]
;W[hi]LB[kk:C][lq:A][ps:B]C[Finnish8d [-\]: is there anything more after?
Finnish8d [-\]: to me it is done
Ten [?\]: Not important, I think
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok
Ten [?\]: Unless Oota has questions
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, nothing
Finnish8d [-\]: w just needs to do maintainence
Finnish8d [-\]: bottom right decided the game, one corner
Ten [?\]: Black attacked the wrong group, more or less
Finnish8d [-\]: As my criteria to Oota
Finnish8d [-\]: they are unacceptable
Ootakamoku [2d\]: sure, I spent ririduclously many gote moves prearing attack on the w group, which never got close to dying
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah all aiming at w bottom strong group
Ten [?\]: Ah, one more thing maybe from the left
Ten [?\]: There was the case of the "didn't find the shape"
]
;B[ln]
;W[lp]
;B[mq]
;W[mp]
;B[kn]
;W[nr]
;B[ch]
;W[cj]
;B[ce]
;W[cd]
;B[bd]C[Mokki [?\]: B14 näyttäis joltain olevinaan tesujilta tässä vaiheessa
Ten [?\]: Hetki, toinen peli loppui
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok
Ten [?\]: Haittaako jos katsotaan se yhdessä läpi tässä välin?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: katotaan vaan
Ten [?\]: Mitäs täällä tapahtuikaan...
Ten [?\]: Around d12
]
;W[bc]
;B[be]
;W[ec]
;B[de]
;W[ee]
;B[fd]
;W[ed]
;B[bb]
;W[ac]
;B[dj]
;W[ck]C[Ten [?\]: Like this c11, for example
Ten [?\]: But probably b18-a17 just loses points then
]
(;B[dh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: yh.. ei löytyny muotoa..
]
;W[fb]C[Ten [?\]: Se ei itse asiassa ollut ongelman ydin
]
;B[gb]
;W[eb]C[Ten [?\]: Pelataan :35 asti ja aletaan käydä läpi niillä main?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok
]
;B[hc]
;W[ef]
;B[fh]
;W[bg]
;B[gk]
;W[nc]
;B[pb]
;W[dr]
;B[mb]
;W[lb]
;B[nb]
;W[fi]
;B[gi]
;W[gj]
;B[gh]
;W[hj]
;B[cm]
;W[dm]
;B[cl]
;W[dl]
;B[cq]
;W[dq]
;B[bn]C[Ten [?\]: Huh, näköjään aika loppui niin ei tarvitse keksiä sitä optimaalista käsittelyä tähän
Ten [?\]: Saved by the bell
Ootakamoku [2d\]: :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: thx
Ten [?\]: Kiitos
Ootakamoku [2d\]: viimeiset 5min ylipelasin vaan mitä keksin
Veivi [5d\]: kuinkahan suureen prosenttiin suomalaisista turnauspeleistä tuo lause pätee
Ootakamoku [2d\]: XD
Veivi [5d\]: tilastonikkari minussa haluaisi tietää
Ten [?\]: Giving Jeff the control
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ihan liian monta kertaa yllätyin
])
(;B[ci]C[Ten [?\]: The actual problem is not "I didn't find the miraculous shape that does everything at the same time"
Ten [?\]: The problem is "I didn't have a consistent plan" ever since b18
Ootakamoku [2d\]: true
Ten [?\]: If black had in mind what he wanted to accomplish, then I think there were many ways to go
Finnish8d [-\]: right
Ten [?\]: Black c12 + c15 etc. says black wants to live on the left side to reduce white points
Ten [?\]: Then black f16 and b18 said that black wants to attack white while he was himself defending
Ten [?\]: Something doesn't add up there
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya
Ten [?\]: So my criteria from this game would be to try to pick a single consistent plan and to try to stick to it
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok, I'd guess b doesn't know how to win the game here. ^^
Ten [?\]: And of course, not to pick the plan so that it's just bad, like attacking p4
Ten [?\]: To win the game is always difficult anyway
Ten [?\]: But it's not so hard to keep playing relatively good moves
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya
Ten [?\]: And probably, if you only play relatively good moves, then the game is easier to win than if you try actively for the win...
Ten [?\]: Go is a difficult game, isn't it
Ten [?\]: Guess I don't have anything more to add
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok, then guess we may finish here then : )
Ootakamoku [2d\]: thank you for the review
Ten [?\]: Right, I'll do the uploading
Ten [?\]: Thanks for the players and the observers
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok thanks. : )
]))
(;B[mb]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, right
Finnish8d [-\]: I will still keima
Ten [?\]: Yeah, definitely
Finnish8d [-\]: cos now as w, it is not easy to pick next move in the corner
Ten [?\]: m13 o12 p16 was the plan, I think
]
;W[lg]
;B[nh]
;W[od]
;B[nd]
;W[ne]
;B[nc]
;W[oe]
;B[qd]C[Ten [?\]: Probably cut
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok, so b will still keep the corner
Ten [?\]: Hmm, or is it too heavy
Ten [?\]: Probably is
Ten [?\]: Turn l15 then
Finnish8d [-\]: I suggest w run ^^
]
;W[ke]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes
Ten [?\]: Yeah, black can keep the corner that way
]))
(;B[pm]C[Ten [?\]: Not q17 was the plan
Finnish8d [-\]: still even if b has a problem
Finnish8d [-\]: getting out is more valuable
])
(;B[pc]C[Ten [?\]: Ah, q7 of course
Ten [?\]: And white q17 etc. afterwards
]))
(;B[qk]C[Finnish8d [-\]: My feeling tells me here
Ten [?\]: R15 was the plan
Finnish8d [-\]: cos Q7 is an issue
Ten [?\]: But yeah, probably pincer is reasonable anyway
]
;W[qe]C[Finnish8d [-\]: it is just still hard to b for sure
Finnish8d [-\]: that corner is too empty
]))
(;B[iq]C[Ten [?\]: Black j3 is good in that l3 is a move white doesn't want to play
Finnish8d [-\]: Yes, so if b does like this, it is logical
Ten [?\]: Ah, no p6-o5 of course
Ten [?\]: That just loses points
]))
(;B[pm]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok
Finnish8d [-\]: how about just jump and leave N3 there?
Ten [?\]: My understanding of r5 is that black wants tenuki
Ten [?\]: I was expecting j3
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but with r1 white priviledge, can I do much with b m3_
])
(;B[iq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Ah that is not Oota ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: Just this
Ten [?\]: Yeah
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, ok
Finnish8d [-\]: even harder for Oota to accept then :P
zife [-\]: mä luulin et jeffin piti harjotella suomee :)
Finnish8d [-\]: Not today zife :P
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, I can see how this makes sense
])))
