(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Finnish8d]PB[Veivi]BR[6d]DT[2015-02-08]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]
;B[pd]
;W[dd]
;B[qp]
;W[dq]
;B[do]
;W[oq]
;B[po]
;W[co]
;B[cn]
;W[cp]
;B[fc]
;W[cf]
;B[dm]
;W[fq]
;B[ci]
;W[db]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[lp]
;W[qq]
;B[rq]
;W[pq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Ah I see
]
(;B[nq]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm
Ten [?\]: When we're talking of amateur players, there can be a way of thinking here that's problematic
Ten [?\]: I get the feeling that amateur players may just think like "mwaha, I can force white low here, suffer with your shape"
]
;W[nr]
;B[lq]
;W[mr]
;B[mp]
;W[rr]
;B[pj]LB[qn:C][oo:D][rp:B][rr:A]TR[lq]C[Ten [?\]: Jeff have anything to say about this?
Finnish8d [-\]: O3 seems not to be right
Ten [?\]: I'm wondering as per what should be our criteria :)
Finnish8d [-\]: If b doesn't care on S2, then N4 right away
Ten [?\]: So this one stone is close to wasted
Ten [?\]: In exchange, white got A
Ten [?\]: So white B is big endgame, or maybe white can do C
Ten [?\]: Or maybe the cut of D becomes dangerous
Ten [?\]: And then we get something like this A-for-triangle exchange, which just doesn't work for black in this game
Ten [?\]: Not saying that Veivi did this, but bear in mind that the opponent may think like this
Veivi [6d\]: O3 was just naive, lazily-read
Ten [?\]: So just basically, the key is to keep in mind the important big picture
Ten [?\]: Make shape that works for the whole board
Veivi [6d\]: i thought w will "of course" play M2
Veivi [6d\]: which is ridiculous
Ten [?\]: Ah, ok, then that's a big mistake :)
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah ok :P
Veivi [6d\]: but that's why i played the sequence
Veivi [6d\]: to get it in sente
Veivi [6d\]: and not gote :D
Ten [?\]: But alright, guess we can conclude here
Ten [?\]: Good luck on Tuesday!
Veivi [6d\]: thanks for game & comments
]
;W[nc]C[Ten [?\]: So, wait a second
]
(;B[pf]
;W[kc]C[Ten [?\]: We should want to look at this one too
]
;B[oc]
;W[nd]
(;B[jd]
;W[jc]
;B[id]
;W[ic]
;B[hd]LB[oc:A][lq:C][nq:B]TR[hd][id][jd]C[Veivi [6d\]: in comparison, about A i felt good :)
Ten [?\]: Personally I wouldn't pick to play this way either
Ten [?\]: Hehe
Ten [?\]: But in this game it was kind of difficult to figure a better plan
Ten [?\]: So as Jeff said, A, which hurt the moyo, became the main problem move
Ten [?\]: In comparison, still, B+C on the lower side is quite the small mistake
Ten [?\]: Jeff, anything to add?
Finnish8d [-\]: Nope ^^
Veivi [6d\]: i see
Finnish8d [-\]: To me C and Q12 were the 2 I immediately noticed
]
;W[le]
;B[ih]C[Ten [?\]: Jeff, upper side?
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe that is harder
Finnish8d [-\]: If I were b, I don't want to do P17 already
Finnish8d [-\]: that hurts the moyo
Ten [?\]: Since the 3-3 remains, you think
Finnish8d [-\]: That also, mainly it hurts the moyo, and that is almost b only property
]
(;W[ij]
;B[ki]
;W[qh]LB[ki:A]C[Ten [?\]: Since A is there now, black could almost perfectly drive white out there
]
(;B[ph]LB[le:C][ph:B][ki:A]C[Ten [?\]: And point two was this
Ten [?\]: With white C around there, the centre is dame
Veivi [6d\]: yeah in game i felt bad for B
Ten [?\]: So A and B can't really work together
Veivi [6d\]: but still played it :(
Ten [?\]: Ok, that's a good sign then :)
]
;W[qg]
;B[pg]
;W[qj]
;B[qk]
;W[qi]
;B[pk]
;W[rd]LB[ph:B][ki:A][ij:C]C[Ten [?\]: Is this combination enough for us?
Finnish8d [-\]: more like with A, b wants to push w out, right?
Ten [?\]: Right, that way black can use A to attack
Ten [?\]: Now the C-A-exchange is close to perfect for white
Ten [?\]: Black only has thick shape
Ten [?\]: But little potential for territory
Ten [?\]: So because of the A-B black combination, white definitely took a lead here
Veivi [6d\]: yes
Ten [?\]: Let's see a bit earlier...
]
;B[rc]
;W[re]
;B[gp]
(;W[ej]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Ok ^^
]
(;B[ei]
;W[fi]
(;B[eh]
;W[hh]
;B[hg]C[Ten [?\]: Mostly I just shut my eyes around here :)
]
;W[cj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ^^
]
;B[bj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: right ^^
]
(;W[kj]C[Ten [?\]: Then at this point, I'd thought white was giving black chances
Finnish8d [-\]: feels like b has to do like H11
Ten [?\]: Here?
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah
Ten [?\]: Hmm, our feelings are totally different
Veivi [6d\]: not especially
]
(;B[lj]
;W[ig]
;B[jh]
;W[gg]
;B[hf]
;W[hi]
(;B[jj]LB[ff:B][dj:A]C[Ten [?\]: Here, too, I'd take A first
Ten [?\]: White kind of has to do B, right?
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm push I guess
Ten [?\]: So then it has to be this, huh
]
;W[dj]C[Ten [?\]: But white getting this connection really really hurts...
Finnish8d [-\]: when b hane M10 I thought w has the game
]
;B[bk]C[Ten [?\]: Yeah, I guess that's it
Ten [?\]: Black does get some territory in the centre, but it can't be enough
Ten [?\]: Hmm, 20 minutes left, no time to start a new game
Ten [?\]: Veivi have some questions?
]
;W[gf]
;B[if]
;W[di]
;B[ch]
;W[dh]
;B[cg]
;W[df]
;B[ik]
;W[hk]
;B[il]
;W[hl]
;B[hm]
;W[im]
;B[jk]
;W[gq]
;B[hp]
;W[gm]
;B[hn]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[rb]
;B[nb]
;W[mb]
;B[rp]C[Ten [?\]: Veivi, idea about the score?
Veivi [6d\]: i had a good feeling, but no exact numbers
]
;W[iq]
;B[sr]
;W[rs]
;B[lr]
;W[pr]
;B[ip]
;W[jq]
(;B[hc]C[Veivi [6d\]: would have played E18, N14 soon
Ten [?\]: Oh, that area
])
(;B[eb]
;W[ec]
;B[fb]
;W[bf]
;B[mf]
;W[lf]
;B[mg]C[Ten [?\]: So something like this?
Veivi [6d\]: sure
]
;W[rk]
;B[rl]
;W[rj]C[Ten [?\]: According to my count, white has almost a ten-point lead on the board
Ten [?\]: Meaning, not including komi
Veivi [6d\]: really?
Ten [?\]: (Just double-checked)
]
;B[pb]
;W[hb]
;B[ma]
;W[lb]
;B[qb]
;W[sc]
;B[bn]
;W[gn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: W leads by about the centre E12 area I think.
]
;B[in]
;W[jp]
;B[jo]
;W[sl]
;B[rm]
;W[lg]
;B[lh]
;W[bo]
;B[da]
;W[ca]
;B[ea]
;W[cb]
;B[ed]
;W[dc]C[Ten [?\]: We can call the black moyo less than 65
Ten [?\]: Maybe 60 is like it
Finnish8d [-\]: If the game wasn't paused, I was considering if I'd do M2 just. :P    Isn't J3 too simple? ^^
Ten [?\]: Let's say black 70 in total
Ten [?\]: Ah, that way, I don't know :)
Ten [?\]: Just threw something normal-looking there
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok : )
Ten [?\]: White is definitely 75 plus, maybe 80 on the board
Ten [?\]: But alright, let's see the game
]))
(;B[dj]LB[kk:A]C[Finnish8d [-\]: G14
Ten [?\]: Ah, ok
]
;W[gf]
;B[if]C[Finnish8d [-\]: in case b answers, I will take L9 myself
]
;W[kk]C[Ten [?\]: I see, so there's going to be life in the centre
Finnish8d [-\]: I am confident ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: doesn't look like it can die
]
;B[lk]C[Ten [?\]: Do you extend?
Finnish8d [-\]: yes
]
;W[kl]
;B[ef]C[Ten [?\]: F9, huh
Ten [?\]: Yeah, that's quite comfortable
]))
(;B[dj]LB[kj:A]C[Ten [?\]: I'll take this without thinking
Finnish8d [-\]: ok so you are still planning on post-living situation ^^
Ten [?\]: Yes, trying to kill is a plan that I won't even consider
Ten [?\]: Territory-and-shape-wise, d10 is awesome
Ten [?\]: And it's not like white has very good follow-ups from A
Finnish8d [-\]: just cut J13 ^^
Ten [?\]: Right
Ten [?\]: And in thta case, A may even get sacrificed anyway
]))
(;W[dj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: guess b cannot answer that attachment
Ten [?\]: Isn't this already bad enough for black?
Ten [?\]: Or the cut is too hard?
Finnish8d [-\]: b will do B12 I guess
]
;B[bh]
;W[cl]LB[cn:A]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah probably I'd do this right away
Finnish8d [-\]: in the game just doesn't want to lose the points on top left :P
Ten [?\]: I cannot really see black attacking with the A group looking like that
Ten [?\]: Oh, but you're talking like three points there :)
Finnish8d [-\]: Oh, only?
Ten [?\]: Well, could be five, but white is anyway solidly alive
Ten [?\]: Compared to A getting weak, that corner is nothing to me
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah sure, so I said, just points there ^^
Ten [?\]: Hehe
]))
(;B[fj]C[Ten [?\]: With that spirit, you almost have to cut :)
Ten [?\]: But there's just too much aji for white to use
Veivi [6d\]: hmm, good spirit
Ten [?\]: All it takes will be a little reading
Finnish8d [-\]: hehe but this is considered :P
Ten [?\]: Thought so :)
Ten [?\]: Just thought black'd need "something like this"
]))
(;B[dk]LB[ej:A][dk:B]C[Ten [?\]: Is there anything for black apart from defending?
Ten [?\]: Normally speaking, black should be super happy to get A-B exchanged
Ten [?\]: And white is not in the clear like this either, right?
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe nope
Ten [?\]: Veivi, what does white do?
Veivi [6d\]: i thought some kind of jump upwards
Veivi [6d\]: i mostly made E11 as a "fighting spirit" choice
Veivi [6d\]: but i guess thats a dumb one :)
Finnish8d [-\]: E11 helped ^^
Ten [?\]: That's a game-betting choice
Ten [?\]: Yeah, that too, attachment and everything
Ten [?\]: If you play e11, you kind of have to kill
Ten [?\]: And since e11 attaches, killing gets really unlikely too
Ten [?\]: I'd call this the single most important point of the game :)
Ten [?\]: Since this kind of a thing could most easily lose the game
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah next move is still hard
Ten [?\]: White can't find a perfect shape, Ig uess
Ten [?\]: Ok, Veivi, so point one from me is this shape
]
(;W[ek]C[Ten [?\]: Get some support from here, maybe
Finnish8d [-\]: plan was D12, but I guess b will turn to the centre
Ten [?\]: If pushing here?
Finnish8d [-\]: so what if b still does G10?
]
;B[gj]C[Ten [?\]: Huh, alright, so push is not so powerful after all
Ten [?\]: G10 works nicely here
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah
Finnish8d [-\]: Now I feel bad on E10
]
;W[dl]C[Veivi [6d\]: G10 here is "woah"
Veivi [6d\]: to me :)
Ten [?\]: Hehe
Ten [?\]: He's trying to annoy white's shape
Finnish8d [-\]: :D
Finnish8d [-\]: ok atari, folllow your way
]
;B[cl]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm, that was a bad wedge
])
(;W[dh]C[Ten [?\]: Ok, just cut probably isn't good
Finnish8d [-\]: b is behind, I'd say that is good uncertainty ^^
Ten [?\]: Hehe
Ten [?\]: Hmm, possibly not
]
(;B[gj]C[Ten [?\]: Maybe from here to try to keep an active pase
Ten [?\]: *pace
Finnish8d [-\]: this might be easier, I worry more on H10
Ten [?\]: How would white do in this case?
Finnish8d [-\]: just run?
]
;W[hi]
;B[fh]
;W[hh]
;B[ff]LB[jk:A]C[Ten [?\]: Might get scary for white too?
Finnish8d [-\]: hehe I am not, but it is not easy for either :P
Ten [?\]: Right
Ten [?\]: My original feeling was just to play A
Ten [?\]: Then I thought I'd put some pressure first
Finnish8d [-\]: Aha ok
Ten [?\]: But it's not too easy to see this work out for black, either
Ten [?\]: Hmm
])
(;B[hj]
;W[hk]
;B[gj]C[Ten [?\]: So this?
Finnish8d [-\]: yes 
Ten [?\]: Huh, again an attachment I'd not think about
Finnish8d [-\]: I know, but this time it is harder to w
Finnish8d [-\]: considered b surrouding
]
;W[ii]
;B[hh]
;W[kj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Cut
]
;B[ik]
;W[li]
;B[kh]
;W[lk]C[Ten [?\]: Seems sabaki?
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah not easy ^^
]))
(;W[gj]C[Ten [?\]: Too boring? :)
Finnish8d [-\]: then I admit E10 is bad :P
Ten [?\]: Hehe
]
;B[hi]
;W[hj]C[Ten [?\]: Well, it's a half-joke anyway still :)
Ten [?\]: I'd never do as g10 either
])))
(;W[gj]
;B[hi]
;W[hj]
;B[ei]C[Ten [?\]: Black could have this way
Ten [?\]: So making the exchange first could make sense
]))
(;B[qf]LB[qj:A][pl:B]C[Ten [?\]: Well, let's say descent
Ten [?\]: I guess white needs something like A for sabaki?
Ten [?\]: Or B if white is more crafty
Finnish8d [-\]: for sure
Finnish8d [-\]: not running ^^
]
(;W[oh]
;B[ng]C[Finnish8d [-\]: plan was if b descent here, w R9
Ten [?\]: Rght, this would just put more money in the game-winning pot
])
(;W[qk]
;B[qj]
;W[rj]
;B[pk]C[Ten [?\]: Hanging?
Ten [?\]: S8, I mean
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm that is annoying, but I have to tiger
Ten [?\]: Tiger
]
;W[rl]
;B[pl]
;W[rg]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes
]
;B[rf]LB[ng:A][nh:B][oh:C]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm, you're still not alive
Ten [?\]: Time to play s14 too
Finnish8d [-\]: So probably w has to push up
Ten [?\]: Veivi, much more interesting than the game, right?
Veivi [6d\]: yeah
Ten [?\]: Basically the same kind of result, but corner territory too
Ten [?\]: Most importantly, black doesn't need stones around A, B, C
Ten [?\]: Since that's dame anyway
]))
(;B[qj]C[Ten [?\]: Maybe this side is okay too
Ten [?\]: Might be better than the other
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Finnish8d [-\]: so w has to turn to the corner
Ten [?\]: Huh, what does white actually do
Ten [?\]: Peep, but...
Finnish8d [-\]: R15 and push R16?
]
;W[qe]
;B[pe]
;W[qd]
;B[qf]C[Ten [?\]: Ok, I'll take it
Finnish8d [-\]: hane and jump
]
;W[rf]
;B[rg]
;W[re]
;B[qg]
;W[qb]
;B[pb]
;W[rc]C[Ten [?\]: So finally it looks something like this
]
;B[gp]C[Ten [?\]: And then black gets g4 like in the game, but now black also has a moyo
Finnish8d [-\]: Definitely harder than the game ^^
]))
(;W[lh]LB[pm:A]C[Ten [?\]: What if whtie only jumps around here next?
Finnish8d [-\]: On the right side 3 invasion spots in theory
Ten [?\]: Right
Finnish8d [-\]: I thought about it :P
Ten [?\]: Personally I want A
Ten [?\]: But it probably needs a little preparation
Finnish8d [-\]: Alerting on b violent way
Veivi [6d\]: yeah, i was calculating on some cuts in case w here
Finnish8d [-\]: like M14, then I wasn't sure
Veivi [6d\]: yeah
Ten [?\]: Huh, black m14 now?
]
;B[lf]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Ten [?\]: Didn't even consider
Finnish8d [-\]: So I decide to put a stone in the centre, just say I am alive, then ruin the right :P
Ten [?\]: That's violent alright
]
;W[kf]C[Ten [?\]: How does this go exactly?
Veivi [6d\]: L14?
Finnish8d [-\]: so trade it with top side
Veivi [6d\]: err 3
]
;B[kg]
;W[lg]
;B[mf]
;W[oe]C[Ten [?\]: Black needs p14?
Veivi [6d\]: P14
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah
]
;B[of]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[qd]
;B[qf]
;W[jg]
;B[kh]
;W[jh]
;B[ki]
;W[ji]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm, the rest of the right does get kind of big
Ten [?\]: No idea
Ten [?\]: Maybe back to game :)
Finnish8d [-\]: ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: Right
]))
(;B[ic]C[Ten [?\]: Is this so bad?
Finnish8d [-\]: This is what I want :P
Ten [?\]: Ah, you wanted it
Ten [?\]: So you jump?
Veivi [6d\]: i thought this is normal, but i tried to take the moyo into account
Finnish8d [-\]: So w K15, attack to take away b moyo
]
;W[je]
;B[he]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm, what next?
Finnish8d [-\]: cash out? :P
Ten [?\]: 3-3 you mean?
Finnish8d [-\]: G16 is very attractive
Finnish8d [-\]: ah nope, I am considering to get F17
Ten [?\]: Oh, I didn't even consider that
Ten [?\]: You want f17 when you have d18 already?
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm, but otherwise I have to jump into the centre :P
Ten [?\]: I thought so
Ten [?\]: That's the biggest, isn't it
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah ok ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: I was considering both
]
;W[jg]
(;B[hg]C[Ten [?\]: Yeah, this is a bit suboptimal for black
])
(;B[nf]C[Ten [?\]: This'd be interesting, but...
]
;W[hg]LB[cl:A]C[Ten [?\]: A is getting too worrisome
Veivi [6d\]: i much prefer the game way
])))
(;B[lc]LB[fc:A]C[Ten [?\]: Pincer?
Finnish8d [-\]: That is more normal ^^
Ten [?\]: 3-3, right?
Prodigious [-\]: yeah, this seems more interesting
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah that is not my plan
Ten [?\]: This will even make use of A, still
Ten [?\]: Ah okay, what then?
Finnish8d [-\]: right side I guess
Ten [?\]: High or low?
Finnish8d [-\]: that is hard :P
Finnish8d [-\]: my feeling is Q14
]
;W[pf]
;B[oc]
;W[qd]
;B[qc]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes
]
;W[qe]
(;B[rc]C[Ten [?\]: Well okay, let's do normal as black
Finnish8d [-\]: this is harder to w :P
Ten [?\]: Well, this kidn of aggressive attack might pay out too :)
]
;W[ph]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
]
;B[qj]C[Ten [?\]: No idea what we'd get out of this
Ten [?\]: Ok, forward maybe
])
(;B[nd]
;W[rc]
;B[qb]
;W[qh]
;B[qi]
;W[ph]
;B[nj]LB[oo:A][lq:B]C[Ten [?\]: This way the A shape seems to get fixed so black's not too bad
Ten [?\]: Though it still feels like B is making black lose out
])))
(;B[mp]
;W[lr]C[Ten [?\]: Like this, right?
Finnish8d [-\]: then go
]
;B[pj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yes
Ten [?\]: Right, I expected something like this
Finnish8d [-\]: bottom side values almost none
]))
