(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Ten]PB[Veivi]BR[6d]DT[2015-10-18]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Ten [?\]: Have a nice game
Veivi [6d?\]: hyvää peliä
]RE[W+Resign]
(;B[pd]
;W[dp]
;B[pp]
;W[dd]
;B[fq]
;W[dn]
;B[dr]
;W[cq]
;B[iq]
;W[cj]
;B[pj]
;W[nc]
;B[kd]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[pc]
;B[od]
;W[nd]
;B[oc]
;W[ob]C[Ten [?\]: Wow, didn't see this in ages
]
(;B[nb]C[Ten [?\]: Was there a special reason for this cut?
Mokki [2d\]: yeah i feel like that too. you stopped to think after white played the obvious answer so I think this is what you meant about bad vibes and feeling off 
Finnish8d [-\]: no this cut doesn't exist :P  sorry
Finnish8d [-\]: hurt b whole structure
Ten [?\]: I'd be thrown out of the insei league if I played this :)
Finnish8d [-\]: :D
]
;W[mb]
;B[pb]
;W[na]C[Veivi [6d?\]: yeah
]
;B[qb]
;W[nf]
;B[fc]
;W[eb]LB[fe:A]TR[na][mb][ob][nc][nd][nf]C[Ten [?\]: And here black really needs a move around A
Ten [?\]: To have to play around that group makes black's game too painful
Veivi [6d?\]: the whole topside i was 100% lost
Veivi [6d?\]: all game
]
;B[pg]C[Veivi [6d?\]: as evidenced by O18
Ten [?\]: It was fine to use more time :)
]
;W[fe]
;B[kf]
;W[jc]
;B[di]
;W[ci]
;B[dg]
;W[dh]
;B[eh]
;W[ch]
;B[eg]
;W[cf]
;B[hg]
;W[he]
;B[np]
;W[qp]
;B[qq]
;W[qo]
;B[rq]
;W[po]
;B[op]
;W[ql]
;B[rk]
;W[ol]
;B[rl]
;W[nk]
;B[lk]
;W[lm]
;B[nm]
;W[ml]
;B[pm]
;W[qm]
(;B[nl]C[Veivi [6d?\]: igor cut
Veivi [6d?\]: ugh
]
;W[ok]C[Mokki [2d\]: escaping into atari
]
;B[mk]
;W[nn]
;B[mm]
;W[mn]
;B[ll]
;W[om]
;B[ml]
;W[ln]
;B[ek]
;W[dl]
;B[hl]
;W[jd]
;B[lp]
;W[kh]
;B[ie]
;W[if]
;B[hf]
;W[hd]
;B[ig]
;W[ip]
;B[jq]
;W[hq]
;B[hr]
;W[jk]
;B[jl]C[Veivi [6d?\]: i had no faith in this plan, but didnt find options
]
;W[il]
;B[ik]
;W[im]
;B[jj]
;W[hk]
;B[kk]
;W[ij]
(;B[gl]LB[dk:A]C[Ten [?\]: Mainly the ko attempt here should be a bit too hard to carry out
Ten [?\]: After all, if black loses the ko, all of black's centre instantly becomes weak
Ten [?\]: A is apparently the only threat black has
]
;W[jk]
;B[dk]
;W[ck]
;B[ik]
;W[hp]
;B[jk]
;W[gr]
;B[is]
;W[fr]
;B[cr]
;W[gq]
;B[bq]
;W[bp]
;B[dq]
;W[cp]
;B[ep]
;W[eo]
;B[fo]
;W[fn]
;B[go]
;W[gn]
;B[ho]
;W[fp]
;B[gp]
;W[io]C[Veivi [6d?\]: thanks for the game
Ten [?\]: Kiitos
Ten [?\]: Jeff, did you watch?
Finnish8d [-\]: nope, still in my own :P
Ten [?\]: Ah, ok
Ten [?\]: Wondered if you'd have anything to say :)
Finnish8d [-\]: one moment, will read it through
Ten [?\]: Ok, thanks
Finnish8d [-\]: hehe ok, b is too ambitious in general ^^
Ten [?\]: Oh, you put it that way
Ten [?\]: Interesting
Finnish8d [-\]: in any case bottom right corner cannot directly try to attack in that way
Ten [?\]: If not for o8, it didn't seem bad
Finnish8d [-\]: and to me cannot let w get K17 ^^
])
(;B[jk]
;W[gl]
;B[hj]
;W[hm]
;B[gj]LB[je:E][ke:F][kh:B][ph:C][dj:D][kn:A]C[Ten [?\]: Something like this has to be expected from the centre
Veivi [6d?\]: i thought there's no way this is enough
Ten [?\]: With so many holes, black can't expect for a large territory
Veivi [6d?\]: so not a path to victory
Ten [?\]: At this point, the "path to victory" is "white mistakes"
Ten [?\]: They will be less likely to occur if black's own shape remains weak
Veivi [6d?\]: i guess
Ten [?\]: "Trying to win the game" is incredibly hard to do
Ten [?\]: "Trying not to lose the game" is a lot easier
Veivi [6d?\]: its just that i do not find any mistakes for w to make with the shapes around
MikGo [-\]: but this way is too simple for white to make a mistake
Ten [?\]: You know, territory-wise black is not that far behind
Ten [?\]: Make a count if you don't believe me
Mokki [2d\]: maybe b could devise a plan to make use of P6 cut to get more area in center
Ten [?\]: The A area is practically connected for white
Ten [?\]: But white B is not completely in the clear, anyway
Ten [?\]: I expect white will win this game by 10 points, but that's just because black's shape is still thin
Ten [?\]: Things like C and D remain
Ten [?\]: But if white goes to attach at C, black can try to mount a counter-attack looking at B
Ten [?\]: If white does nothing around C and black gets the whole right-side territory, then black already profits a few points
Ten [?\]: The E-F weakness is another minus for black
Ten [?\]: And that's another thing that black can try to maneuvre around, in relation to B
Ten [?\]: Do well over there and the game is instantly within 5
Veivi [6d?\]: i guess some confidence could be useful
Ten [?\]: If that's the issue, then yes
Ten [?\]: My feeling was that black needed more patience in this game
Ten [?\]: Guess that's a flip side of Jeff's "too ambitious"
Veivi [6d?\]: yeah, well
Veivi [6d?\]: i often go for big swings just because i dont have any faith in a long, solid game played by me
Veivi [6d?\]: sometimes big swings bring wins
Ten [?\]: Hmm, I see
Ten [?\]: Meaning the endgame is lacking, huh
Ten [?\]: Sounds about right
Veivi [6d?\]: i guess endgame is a problem yeah
Mokki [2d\]: well you still can go for the big swings even if patient. Keeping the punch waiting in midgame is better than going all out
Veivi [6d?\]: but also confidence, loss of energy and loss of concentration attribute to it
Veivi [6d?\]: i know for a fact that being able to play a long, solid game is a prime requirement to being a strong player 
Ten [?\]: Different thing still to be able to do it alright
Veivi [6d?\]: so it's not that i do not think it is important, i'm just... off.
Veivi [6d?\]: yeah, that's what separates the strong from the weak
Mokki [2d\]: well you are not weak
Ten [?\]: All relative of course
Veivi [6d?\]: im in a limbo
Veivi [6d?\]: im not strong, nor weak.
Mokki [2d\]: i'd say more like strong from good
Ten [?\]: I don't know about the rest, but proper endgame practise will improve patience at least
Ten [?\]: That way you train yourself to see how things will finally turn out
Ten [?\]: But alright, let's finish here and I'll turn to the other game
Veivi [6d?\]: endgame practice could bring confidence (not to mention better moves) for sure
Veivi [6d?\]: yeah
Veivi [6d?\]: thanks
]))
(;B[om]C[Ten [?\]: I didn't know what I'd play here
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah here b has to be patient
Mokki [2d\]: veivi: you stopped to think after antti played the obvious move before igor cut. did you play the move before on feel?
Ten [?\]: I guess even if white does the most ugly conneciton, it's still not in general bad since black's stones are dead weight
Veivi [6d?\]: well, O7 was more of a question than a full plan
Veivi [6d?\]: i just  couldn't come up with anything else
Ten [?\]: That's going to be one expensive question if you don't follow it up right away
Ten [?\]: M9 was a nice spot
Ten [?\]: Effectively punished white o9
Ten [?\]: Just the follow-up had to be more patient, as Jeff said
]))
(;B[pb]C[Ten [?\]: You should know this joseki, right?
Veivi [6d?\]: yeah
]
;W[qb]
;B[nb]
;W[pa]
;B[ne]
;W[me]
;B[md]
;W[mc]
;B[mb]C[Veivi [6d?\]: i really do not know what i was doing :P
]
;W[lc]
;B[ld]
;W[kb]
;B[nf]))
(;B[pf]
;W[dd]
;B[np]
;W[dq]
;B[jd]
;W[po]
;B[pp]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: I gambled on purpose there, considering you are much stronger, I rather gamble on L&D and take big points
]
;W[qp]
;B[qq]
;W[qo]
;B[pq]
;W[qk]
;B[do]
;W[pd]
(;B[nd]C[Ten [?\]: Veivi said almost the same thing...
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah and I think I did something wrong there for sure
Ten [?\]: I can't understand that reasoning
]
;W[pc]
;B[nf]
;W[nb]LB[jd:A]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: increase variance against stronger players, decrease variance against weakers, to maximize chance of winning
Ten [?\]: I feel pessimistic as black already here :)
Finnish8d [-\]: sure, b stones are not working together
Ten [?\]: Oota, you think yourself strong enough to increase the variance evenly against us?
Ootakamoku [-\]: ?
Ten [?\]: Your imagination is probably, normally the result is n +-3
Ten [?\]: And that with increasing variation, you can make n+-15, and like that
Ootakamoku [-\]: sure
Ten [?\]: But it's probably more like -25, +5
Ootakamoku [-\]: hmm
Ten [?\]: It's not like, just because you decide to make things difficult, the stronger player gets in trouble too
Ootakamoku [-\]: actually, the way I think about icnreasing variance, is indeed that I ahve to pay something for it, as in positive increase is smaller than negative
Ten [?\]: Ok, then in training sense it's out too
Ootakamoku [-\]: but I dont consider it -25 +5, maybe more like -50, +15
Ten [?\]: You're not supposed to take losses knowingly
Ootakamoku [-\]: hmm
Ten [?\]: Doesn't it defeat the purpose of training?
Ootakamoku [-\]: ya, I guess in training its bad strategy
Ten [?\]: So anyway here, black A is off
Ten [?\]: This way black is a half-stone behind
]
;B[cf]
;W[di]
(;B[eh]LB[dd:B][di:A][do:C]C[Ten [?\]: This one is wrong direction
Ten [?\]: A and B, which one do you want to attack again?
Ootakamoku [-\]: dno, both look difficult
Ootakamoku [-\]: but I guess A
Ten [?\]: It should be A
Ten [?\]: Since you've got C there waiting too
Ten [?\]: E12 needlessly leans on A, making it stronger
Ten [?\]: And making C weaker
Ootakamoku [-\]: but how do I attack it?
]
;W[ei]
;B[fh]
;W[fi]
;B[gh]
;W[fc]
;B[gi]
;W[dl]LB[gi:A][qk:B]C[Ten [?\]: Usually, black would be happy getting A
Ten [?\]: But in this game, white strengthened both his gorups, and the black centre doesn't exist anyway
Ten [?\]: If the right side looked different and white B didn't exist, then black could maybe be happy
Ten [?\]: But not in this game where black had a chance to attack and wasted it
]
;B[go]
;W[gq]C[Ten [?\]: Hmm, but it has to be there, huh
]
(;B[ol]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: this is one of those spots where you and ten might play differently from everyone else
Ten [?\]: The centre is still nothing to me, here...
]
;W[pj]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: ok, so didnt see that move :(
]
;B[ql]
;W[rl]
;B[qm]
;W[rm]
;B[oj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: too many holes
]
;W[ok]
;B[nk]
;W[pk]
;B[nj]
;W[gl]
;B[pi]
(;W[il]C[Ten [?\]: Is this jump big?
Ten [?\]: Aha :)
Ten [?\]: I get the feeling like black has a chance this way
Ten [?\]: Now it feels like white has to be able to carry the attack off too
]
;B[hk]
;W[gn]
;B[gp]
;W[hq]
(;B[hl]C[Ten [?\]: Ok, this doesn't exist for sure
]
(;W[hn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
]
;B[im]
;W[dp]
(;B[dm]
;W[cl]
;B[cm]
;W[co]
;B[fm]
;W[fn]TR[dl][fn][dp]C[Ten [?\]: Finisher shape
Ootakamoku [-\]: elephant jump for da kill
Ten [?\]: Ok, let's finish here :)
Ten [?\]: Double elephant, actually
Ootakamoku [-\]: thx for the game & review
Finnish8d [-\]: :D
Finnish8d [-\]: Thanks ^^
Ten [?\]: See you next month then, good luck for the team
]
;B[en]
;W[gm]C[Ten [?\]: After this, it seems impossible
]
;B[el]C[Finnish8d [-\]: sorry was reading the other game :P
Ootakamoku [-\]: np
]
;W[ek]
(;B[cn]
;W[bo]
;B[bl]
;W[bk]
;B[fo]
;W[fl]
;B[ck]
;W[dk]
;B[bj]
;W[cj]
;B[ak]
;W[bi]
;B[bn]
;W[ep]
;B[cp]
;W[bp]
;B[am]
;W[aj]
;B[eo]
;W[em]
;B[ip]
;W[hp]
;B[in]
;W[ho]
;B[cc]
;W[cd]
;B[dc]
;W[ec]
;B[bd]
;W[be]
;B[bc]
;W[ce]
;B[bf]
;W[ae]
;B[ed]
;W[fe]
;B[gd]
;W[fd]
;B[ef]
;W[ee]
;B[db]
;W[eb]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: oops
]
;B[jq]C[Ten [?\]: I guess you should turn to review soon?
Finnish8d [-\]: any time I guess : )
]
;W[no]C[Finnish8d [-\]: thanks
Ootakamoku [-\]: thank you
Finnish8d [-\]: I think b could have lived on the left
Ten [?\]: There was something fishy there alright
Ootakamoku [-\]: ya, I thought so
Ten [?\]: Want me to do the review?
Finnish8d [-\]: sure please : )
])
(;B[dk]C[Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
Ten [?\]: By correct technique it's probably here
Finnish8d [-\]: this is something at least
Ten [?\]: But even like this, I don't see how black can make it out
]
;W[ck]
;B[fk]
;W[dj]
;B[fo]
;W[io]C[Ten [?\]: Nothing, right?
Finnish8d [-\]: nothing
Ootakamoku [-\]: this I atleast read
Finnish8d [-\]: ok ^^
]))
(;B[cn]C[Ten [?\]: If here?
Ootakamoku [-\]: oh..
Ten [?\]: Not sure if it's good yet, just trying
Ten [?\]: Still white c8?
Finnish8d [-\]: has to be
Finnish8d [-\]: then you ko
]
;W[cl]
;B[cp]
;W[cq]
;B[bq]C[Ten [?\]: And then the question is if b5 exists
Ten [?\]: Probably too risky here?
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm I know from the start, that this group is not easy to attack, and centre is small
Finnish8d [-\]: then I turned to Oota's logic :P
Ten [?\]: Yeah, that's the feeling I got :)
Ten [?\]: If black got a ko life in here, then black got both the centre and handled the corner
]))
(;W[hm]LB[hl:A]C[Ten [?\]: Also isn't white here? :)
Finnish8d [-\]: that is what he wants, so I ruled it out directly :P
Ten [?\]: I thought this is what white wants too :D
Finnish8d [-\]: so he will cut
Ten [?\]: A shouldn't exist in the first place, with the corner that weak
Finnish8d [-\]: and I have to seal in gote, right?
Ten [?\]: And if white just played the shape, I'd have no idea what black is doing :)
Ootakamoku [-\]: c3 here?
]
;B[im]
;W[in]
;B[jm]
;W[jn]C[Ten [?\]: Not a terrible gote, that
Ten [?\]: ...Right?
Finnish8d [-\]: I bet Oota will answer :P
Ten [?\]: It doesn't look to me like black gained anything this way
]
;B[km]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: I would answer yes
]
;W[cq]C[Ten [?\]: Let's take the corner then
Ten [?\]: J4 for escape huh
]
;B[ip]
;W[kn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: centre was small, I'd stick on that line ^^
Ootakamoku [-\]: uh..
]
;B[lm]
;W[ep]LB[mc:C][hd:A][ld:D][ie:B]C[Ten [?\]: Pretty sure I caught some black stones :)
Finnish8d [-\]: yes
Ootakamoku [-\]: cant play m7, ya
Finnish8d [-\]: right, so centre is small
Ten [?\]: Going to be white A, black B, white C, black D
Ten [?\]: At least it feels black has to do the lower left more solidly first
Ten [?\]: This kind of white territory can't be allowed
]))
(;B[fn]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ok so I made a commitment to voters, again. :P
Ten [?\]: If hane?
Finnish8d [-\]: has to nobi, but yeah it is not a shape at all
]
;W[hn]
;B[cq]C[Ten [?\]: Suddenly seems like black might be able to get sabaki
Ten [?\]: If hane, then clamp of course
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah 
])
(;B[cq]C[Ten [?\]: Then do it here
Ten [?\]: That push is a loss
Ootakamoku [-\]: ah, yes, sure
]
;W[cr]LB[gn:A]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: e3?
Ten [?\]: If black gets a good result now, then it's probably white A's fault
]
;B[eq]
;W[dp]C[Ten [?\]: Has to be here, huh
]
;B[ep]C[Finnish8d [-\]: right
]
;W[cp]
;B[ip]C[Ten [?\]: So yes, black does get out
Ten [?\]: Though the centre doesn't exist in this scenario either
Ten [?\]: But this should still be black's way to go
]))
(;W[cq]C[Ten [?\]: How about this direction?
Finnish8d [-\]: ah directly there
Finnish8d [-\]: I was between jump and J4
Ten [?\]: Ah, yeah, I don't feel like j4 either
Ten [?\]: This way it seems like white will get to play j8 or j4 naturally
Ten [?\]: (or j3)
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
])
(;W[gj]C[Ten [?\]: If for the centre, isn't it here?
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm
Finnish8d [-\]: more like a shape, true
Ten [?\]: And the follow-up is stronger
Finnish8d [-\]: I was considering b group just :P
Finnish8d [-\]: so only listed myself jump and J4
]))
(;B[ok]C[Ten [?\]: So cap?
Ootakamoku [-\]: ok
Finnish8d [-\]: yes that is harder to answer
]
;W[qi]C[Ten [?\]: I still don't like it for black
Ten [?\]: But this "works" at least
Ootakamoku [-\]: g8?
Finnish8d [-\]: already like this, then has to continue on this line :P
Ten [?\]: There's still p11
]
(;B[oi]C[Finnish8d [-\]: peep?
Finnish8d [-\]: I mean b
])
(;B[pj]
;W[qj]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: peep and then g8?
Finnish8d [-\]: then G9?
]
(;B[gk]C[Finnish8d [-\]: the best I can imagine
Ten [?\]: I see
Ten [?\]: For our purposes, I guess this "passes"
Finnish8d [-\]: stil it is not big
Ten [?\]: But I feel like there's a game-ending sequence on the right now
]
;W[oi]
;B[pi]
;W[ph]
;B[oh]C[Finnish8d [-\]: ah ok
]
;W[og]
;B[nh]
;W[pg]
;B[of]
;W[oj]
;B[pk]
;W[ng]
;B[mg]
;W[mh]
;B[ni]
;W[nj]
;B[mi]C[Finnish8d [-\]: get you ^^
Ten [?\]: Something
]
;W[nl])
(;B[ph]C[Ten [?\]: So I'd still fix here
])
(;B[pl]
;W[ql]
;B[ph]C[Ten [?\]: And, yes, finally not so big
Ten [?\]: But I guess it has to be this
Ten [?\]: Otherwise the previous plan doesn't work
Finnish8d [-\]: right
]))))
(;B[ef]
;W[fc]
;B[dk]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: jump out and then c8?
Ootakamoku [-\]: oh.
Ten [?\]: Normal stuff
Finnish8d [-\]: yes
Ootakamoku [-\]: hmm
]
;W[fi]
;B[gd]
;W[fd]
;B[gf]C[Ten [?\]: Something like this
Finnish8d [-\]: that is your target, so attack it ^^
Ten [?\]: For example
Finnish8d [-\]: straight forward logic : )
]))
(;B[nc]C[Ten [?\]: I guess black needed a low approach
Ten [?\]: Oota is going to say...
]
;W[nd]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: ah, looks bette rwith k16
]
;B[md]
;W[ne]
;B[oc]
;W[pe]
;B[qb]C[Ten [?\]: ...That now white gets in the centre and gets the right side to boot
Ten [?\]: So now the centre plan disappears
Ten [?\]: But this way, the black *stones* are working
Ootakamoku [-\]: but q3 is somewhat territory oriented, so it looks ok
Ten [?\]: Yeah, it has to be that way
])))
