(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Werfeus]PB[Ten]WR[5d]BR[1p]DT[2016-01-17]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Ten [1p\]: Well, I can do it too
bleen [1k\]: is this here kind of an event by the way?
]RE[B+Resign]
(;B[pd]
;W[dd]
;B[oq]
;W[eq]
;B[cp]
;W[dn]
;B[ep]
;W[dp]
;B[do]
;W[dq]
;B[co]
;W[eo]
;B[fp]C[Ten [1p\]: It's just the Finnish European Championship team training
Ten [1p\]: Didn't guess we'd get 100 observers for that
Finnish8d [-\]: Antti, better you comment, I believe people wants to see your comments too. : )
Ten [1p\]: Ok
]
;W[cq]
;B[cn]
;W[dm]
;B[bl]
;W[gr]
;B[hp]
;W[fo]
;B[go]
;W[fm]
;B[bq]
;W[br]
;B[ck]
;W[hm]
;B[jp]C[Ten [1p\]: I've no idea about joseki, but guess this is quite fair for both?
]
;W[nc]
;B[qf]
;W[jd]
;B[qp]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Looks fine ^^
]
;W[pg]
;B[pf]
;W[ng]
;B[og]
;W[oh]
;B[of]
(;W[qo]C[Ten [1p\]: Got a bit lost here about what's going on :)
]
;B[po]
;W[qn]
;B[pp]
;W[pn]
;B[on]
;W[om]
;B[nm]
;W[nn]
;B[oo]
;W[ol]
;B[nl]
;W[ok]
;B[mn]TR[nh][ph][nl][nm][mn][jp]C[Ten [1p\]: Guess I'm not too sure about this
Ten [1p\]: Might be preference, but I like this shape facing the white centre group as black
Ten [1p\]: Plus two cuts left too for white
Ten [1p\]: Well anyway, let's go for the second game?
Finnish8d [-\]: right
]
(;W[cf]LB[qh:A]C[Mokki [2d\]: i want to pincer and extend but it feels slow
Ten [1p\]: Now it feels white needed A instead
Werfeus [5d\]: r12 was the other choice but i didn't feel it defends nicely enough
Mokki [2d\]: ah, i was late
Ten [1p\]: That way it's close enough to territory, right?
]
;B[qi]
;W[qk]
;B[eb]
;W[db]
;B[ec]
;W[dc]
;B[hc]
;W[ic]
;B[hd]
;W[pb]
;B[gl]
;W[gm]
;B[ek]
;W[hk]
;B[hl]
;W[bm]
;B[cm]
;W[dl]
;B[dk]
;W[il]
;B[gk]
(;W[in]
;B[ik]
;W[jl]
;B[hj]
;W[jo]
;B[kp]
;W[qc]C[Ten [1p\]: For sente you got that r17 in the corner
Ten [1p\]: Which, while territorially big, didn't feel exactly like pressuring black
Werfeus [5d\]: and i hooray'd
Ten [1p\]: Oh, hehe
]
;B[nh]
;W[oi]
;B[md]
;W[mc]
;B[ld]
;W[lc]
;B[mh]LB[kd:A][nh:B][hj:D][jl:C][gn:E]C[Ten [1p\]: In the game, because of A, white has to juggle that too
Ten [1p\]: And at the same time, if the centre group dies, the game is instantly over
Ten [1p\]: Jeff, anything to add?
Ten [1p\]: It seems I'm not getting through here :)
Finnish8d [-\]: you mentioned all ^^
Werfeus [5d\]: not much in this game
Ten [1p\]: Consistency called for B, that's probably my biggest remark
Ootakamoku [-\]: w went too territorial on a position that favored center oriented play?
Ootakamoku [-\]: or was it just preference? 
Ten [1p\]: I wouldn't call it just preference, the shape with C and D is really heavy for white
Ten [1p\]: If white has to play E to live, something definitely went wrong
Ootakamoku [-\]: meant starting with r5
Ten [1p\]: But white may have no choice there
]
;W[jf]LB[je:A][fn:B]C[Ten [1p\]: Don't you think with A and B, the white board position is really thin?
Ten [1p\]: If white has no shape problems anywhere, then the territorial balance is pretty even
Ten [1p\]: But white is going to need extra moves fixing the centre and A
]
;B[fn]
;W[en]
;B[gn]
;W[jk]
;B[jj]
;W[kj]
;B[kk]
;W[ho]
;B[ip]
;W[]C[Ten [1p\]: Jeff may go ahead here I guess?
Finnish8d [-\]: Oh so I will comment this game? :P
Finnish8d [-\]: Let me check ^^
])
(;W[jm]C[Ten [1p\]: Should be here, no?
Ten [1p\]: I didn't see that white has anything to aim for on the lower side
]
;B[ik]
;W[jk]
;B[hj]
;W[jj]
;B[kc]C[Werfeus [5d\]: sente seemed like a nice thing to have
Ten [1p\]: Now I guess I take sente to see what I can get on the upper side
]
;W[hb]
;B[gb]
;W[kd]
;B[ib]
;W[jb]
;B[ha]
;W[lc]LB[qc:A][nh:B]TR[ff][gf][hf][fg][hg][fh][gh][hh][hj][gk][ik][gl][hl]C[Ten [1p\]: I'm not sure I feel like hurrying to A as black here
Ten [1p\]: Hmm, but maybe there's nothing bigger
Ten [1p\]: In the game black had reason to play B to make for a thick centre shape
Ten [1p\]: That felt like an easier game
Werfeus [5d\]: never feels good to let a group make two eyes like h17 just did
Ten [1p\]: I wouldn't mind that too much in this game because of the thick black centre shape
Ten [1p\]: It didn't seem like black could get in trouble anyway
Ten [1p\]: Territory-wise, black gained very little
Ten [1p\]: At the same time, now, because white is all solid, the marked territory area is no points for either
]))
(;W[qh]
(;W[pb]C[Ten [1p\]: And next q18 is going to be painful for black
])
(;B[me]C[Ten [1p\]: So again I guess I'll cut here
]
;W[ld]
;B[nh]
;W[oi]
;B[mg]C[Ten [1p\]: This way white's territorial situation is a lot better than in the game
yusioh359: ten is right
])))
(;W[nh]LB[ci:B][hm:A]C[Ten [1p\]: Guess white'd continue here since he started the sequence in the first place
Ten [1p\]: With o12, the A group is a lot stronger
Ten [1p\]: Which makes white B easier to play later, as a kind of attacking move
Ten [1p\]: So you'll take the corner?
Finnish8d [-\]: yeah
]
(;B[me]
;W[pc]
;B[qc]
;W[qd]C[Ten [1p\]: This was some kind of joseki if I remember right?
]
;B[oc]
;W[pb]
;B[od]
;W[ob]
;B[rd]
;W[lc]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah if b plays this way
Ten [1p\]: Black can resist?
Ten [1p\]: I was just going to do like this
Finnish8d [-\]: ah no I mean
Finnish8d [-\]: I wouldn't do N15 as b :P
]
;B[oi]C[Ten [1p\]: Ah ok
])
(;B[pb]C[Ten [1p\]: Ok, to me this was white kikashi then
Werfeus [5d\]: you play q18 i would o12
Mokki [2d\]: now white shimari?
]
;W[np]C[Ten [1p\]: I'd maybe do around here
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm I get your point
Ten [1p\]: That's really nice white centre influence, and the corner should value little with r11 there
])))
(;B[pf]
;W[dd]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: been playing lots of goquest last few days
]
;B[np]
;W[dq]
;B[do]
;W[fq]C[Finnish8d [-\]: As my understanding, since b played this kind of fuseki, b has to continue the abstract way to enlarge, cannot fall to gote
Finnish8d [-\]: so b doesn't wanna cost another move at bottom left
Ten [1p\]: Hehe
Finnish8d [-\]: Hehe that I have no idea
Finnish8d [-\]: depends on your imagination on fuseki design. ^^
]
;B[cq]
;W[cr]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: you should come play it too :-)
Ootakamoku [-\]: g15 maybe then? 
]
;B[cp]C[Finnish8d [-\]: what is goquest? :P
]
;W[br]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: 9x9 server. 3min+1sec fisher. only automatch. lots of pros play there
Ootakamoku [-\]: http://wars.fm/go9
Finnish8d [-\]: Ah ok, sounds fun. :P
]
;B[ck]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I will probably show it to the kids in school. ^^
]
;W[pp]
;B[pn]
;W[qp]
;B[nn]
;W[rn]
(;B[cf]C[Ten [1p\]: To possibly get use out of o6 later
Finnish8d [-\]: Yeah since left side is flat
Ootakamoku [-\]: hmm
Ootakamoku [-\]: f17 or high stone on the side? 
Finnish8d [-\]: I prefer high, but that may not matter that much
Ten [1p\]: f17 c14 k16 for me, maybe
]
;W[fc]C[Ten [1p\]: C14 seems like it should be upper side
]
(;B[bd]C[Finnish8d [-\]: So this way is definitely not working with bottom right corner structure
]
;W[od]
;B[cc]C[Finnish8d [-\]: and this surprised me. :P
Finnish8d [-\]: top right corner is so big
Ten [1p\]: R16 should be too big to allow, yes
Ten [1p\]: C17 could make sense if h17 was really severe
Ootakamoku [-\]: ok
]
;W[qd]C[Ten [1p\]: But because the left side is hard to build with c9, h17's value is small
Ootakamoku [-\]: thought b k16 too good if other order
Finnish8d [-\]: you don't have to pick either yet
Finnish8d [-\]: just answer on the right corner
]
;B[hc]
;W[lc]
(;B[ee]C[Finnish8d [-\]: This is not the right direction, also the shape is odd
Finnish8d [-\]: kind of like you have to capture D16 later, or the shape is gone
]
;W[gd]
;B[mc]C[Finnish8d [-\]: And well I don't know what Oota was up to from around here. :P
Finnish8d [-\]: looks like dream of centre and sacrifice the reality?
Ten [1p\]: This doesn't seem to make use of h17
]
;W[md]
;B[gf]
;W[hd]
;B[nc]C[Finnish8d [-\]: because this is the follow ups
Finnish8d [-\]: I don't get it. :P
Ten [1p\]: ...Yeah, h17's loss is too big
Finnish8d [-\]: Mainly, centre is desert for now
Finnish8d [-\]: especially C9 is low
]
;W[ld]
;B[pc]
;W[pd]
;B[qc]
;W[rc]
;B[rb]
;W[oc]
(;B[ob]
;W[nb]
;B[pb]
;W[mb]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I guess it is just not so good to b either way
]
;B[fk]
;W[dc]
;B[ip]
;W[go]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I have to say I don't know how to win this as b :P
Ten [1p\]: H6 is fine to me
]
;B[hn]
;W[pj]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: right side first? 
]
(;B[gq]
;W[eo]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: regret h6
Ten [1p\]: G6 now, right?
Ten [1p\]: Not g3
]
;B[nj]
;W[ph]
;B[nh]
;W[if]
;B[pg]
;W[oh]
;B[ne]
;W[nf]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: urgh..
Ootakamoku [-\]: careless of me
Finnish8d [-\]: I am not sure when b may get the peep in sente
Finnish8d [-\]: cos w will not easily just answer in most of the cases
]
;B[ng]
;W[og]
;B[ih]
;W[hg]
;B[gi]
;W[en]
(;B[cm]
;W[gm]
;B[hm]
;W[gl]
;B[hl]
;W[gk]
;B[gj]
;W[hk]
;B[ik]
;W[hq]
;B[iq]
;W[om]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Centre is pretty small like this, right? :P
]
;B[pk]
;W[oj]
;B[ok]
;W[nk]
;B[ni]
;W[qk]
;B[of]
;W[mf]
;B[pl]
;W[pm]
;B[ql]
;W[qm]
;B[qj]
;W[qh]
;B[ri]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Antti suggests we start review at 13:25 ^^
Ootakamoku [-\]: i think this fight ends the game anyhow
Finnish8d [-\]: right : )
]
;W[rl]
;B[rk]
;W[ol]
;B[qk]
;W[qg]
;B[qf]
;W[rf]
;B[mk]
;W[nl]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: can't let you have whole right side so had to fight this
]
(;B[re]
;W[rg]
;B[sl]
;W[rm]
;B[qe]
;W[rd]
;B[se]
;W[oe]
;B[sh]
;W[sd]C[Finnish8d [-\]: Ok we may just finish here?
]
;B[sj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: your right side is alive, looks like :P
Finnish8d [-\]: Well not like this??
Ootakamoku [-\]: oh. right
Ootakamoku [-\]: had sort of mentally given up
Ten [1p\]: S12 is key
Ten [1p\]: As long as black has that, it's alive
Ten [1p\]: Ok, Jeff's demo ->
])
(;B[oi]
(;W[pi]
;B[rg]
;W[rh]
;B[re]C[Ten [1p\]: And even if this lives, the corner dies so...
]
;W[sg]
;B[se]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: ko...
Finnish8d [-\]: yes
Finnish8d [-\]: so
])
(;W[rd]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I plan to give the 2 if like this
]
;B[pi]
;W[ml]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: right
Finnish8d [-\]: so corner is half dead, and b centre is gone
Ootakamoku [-\]: could i have played q9 earlier? 
Finnish8d [-\]: I don't mind to lose a bit on the right, it wasn't w territory anyway
Ootakamoku [-\]: before p7
])))
(;B[pk]
;W[cm]C[Finnish8d [-\]: guess it is hard to get it in sente
Ootakamoku [-\]: p14 won't kill? 
Finnish8d [-\]: w has 2 ways to connect right?
]
;B[of]
;W[mf]
(;B[qh]
;W[qi]
;B[rh]
;W[qk])
(;B[qj]
;W[qh]LB[qg:A][qk:B]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: hmm. ya
Finnish8d [-\]: just rough reading, but to me w won't die
Finnish8d [-\]: In general
Finnish8d [-\]: to give H17 and make centre doesn't seem to be a good idea
Ootakamoku [-\]: ya
Finnish8d [-\]: that is the main thing I think ^^
Finnish8d [-\]: Antti wanna say something? : )
Ten [1p\]: Ok, let's finish here?
Ten [1p\]: I can upload
Ten [1p\]: That's enough I think :)
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok ^^
])))
(;B[gn]
;W[mj]C[Finnish8d [-\]: don't think b can manage this :P
Ten [1p\]: Not easy to be sure
Ten [1p\]: This way the shape is thick at least, centre can be territory
Ten [1p\]: I was thinking if something around r10 is possible, but could be dangerous
Ten [1p\]: S16 in sente is annoying
Ten [1p\]: Almost feels like taking it immediately
Finnish8d [-\]: you may ignore that :P
Ten [1p\]: I won't, it's huge right?
Finnish8d [-\]: taking it now?
Ten [1p\]: Yeah
Finnish8d [-\]: taking it also hurt :P
]
;B[rd]
;W[re]
;B[sc]
;W[qf]C[Ten [1p\]: Yeah, giving up on right-side invasion
Ten [1p\]: Which was probably impossible anyway
Ten [1p\]: Around l11 then
]
;B[ki]C[Finnish8d [-\]: I won't answer this :P
Ten [1p\]: I don't think white is that much ahead?
Ten [1p\]: That's fine
Finnish8d [-\]: Ok probably I just felt comfortable in the game :P
Finnish8d [-\]: so D17 is slow then.
Ten [1p\]: I mean white is definitely better, but it's far from finished
Finnish8d [-\]: cos it should have been a lot ahead for w
Finnish8d [-\]: well anyway :P
]))
(;B[rd]
;W[pb]
;B[qb]))
(;B[hf]C[Ten [1p\]: G15 instead?
Finnish8d [-\]: More like this direction right?
])
(;B[ge]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: right...
Finnish8d [-\]: hmm guess I have to do the ugly way if like this :P
Ten [1p\]: Yeah
]
;W[df]
;B[dg]
;W[ef]
;B[dh]
;W[fg]))
(;B[ef]))
(;B[fc]
;W[cf]
;B[jd]C[Ootakamoku [-\]: ok
])))
