(;GM[1]FF[4]AP[glGo:1.4]ST[1] SZ[19]KM[6.5] PW[Pei]WR[6d?]PB[Tienb]BR[6d?]RE[W+4861347919638546900000000000000,0]TM[600]DT[2010-11-23]PC[IGS-PandaNet]CP[Copyright (c) PANDANET Inc. 2010] ;B[pd] ;W[dp] ;B[qq] ;W[dc] ;B[de] ;W[ce] ;B[cf] ;W[cd] ;B[df] ;W[fc] ;B[dj] ;W[qf] ;B[pj] ;W[nd] ;B[pf] ;W[pg] ;B[of] ;W[qe] ;B[od] ;W[rc] ;B[og] ;W[ph] ;B[oh] ;W[jd] ;B[fq] ;W[fp] ;B[gp] ;W[fo] ;B[dq] ;W[eq] ;B[er] ;W[ep] ;B[gr] ;W[cq] ;B[dr] ;W[pp] ;B[pq] ;W[op] ;B[oq] ;W[np] ;B[ro] ;W[nq] ;B[kq] ;W[lp] ;B[kp] ;W[ln] ;B[jn] ;W[ll] ;B[bo] ;W[cn] ;B[bn] ;W[cm] ;B[cp] ;W[bm] ;B[bp] ;W[go] ;B[hp] ;W[gl] ;B[dl] ;W[ck] ;B[dk] ;W[cj] ;B[ci] ;W[bi] ;B[bh] ;W[di] ;B[ch] ;W[ei] ;B[fk] ;W[gi] ;B[gk] ;W[hl] ;B[hk] ;W[il] ;B[ik] ;W[jl] ;B[fh] ;W[fi] ;B[hh] ;W[gh] ;B[gg] ;W[fg] ;B[hg] ;W[ff] ;B[eh] ;W[bj] ;B[dh] ;W[jk] ;B[jj] ;W[nc] ;B[hc] ;W[hd] ;B[gd] ;W[gc] ;B[lc] ;W[ld] ;B[id] ;W[he] ;B[ie] ;W[ic] ;B[jc] ;W[hb] ;B[kd] ;W[je] ;B[ke] ;W[if] ;B[kf] ;W[jb] ;B[lb] ;W[kg] ;B[lg] ;W[jg] ;B[ii] ;W[pb] ;B[ob] ;W[oc] ;B[pc] ;W[nb] ;B[qb] ;W[oa] ;B[rd] ;W[qd] ;B[qc] ;W[le] ;B[lf] ;W[kc] ;B[re] ;W[rf] ;B[rb] ;W[pi] ;B[qj]C[kibarosman [ 1k \]: q8 area critical] ;W[oi] ;B[nk] ;W[mi] ;B[nj] ;W[ni]C[kibarosman [ 1k \]: q6?] ;B[lj]C[Disruption [13k?\]: seems big enough looking at the state of the game right now kibarosman [ 1k \]: b threatening to kill baldur [ 5d \]: something's going to die Disruption [13k?\]: yup, that seems correct finity: I bet on M18 stones kibarosman [ 1k \]: don't think s11 enough to live, so w may resign here] ;W[lh] ;B[md]C[kibarosman [ 1k \]: wasn't L12 enough?] ;W[me] ;B[ne] ;W[mf] ;B[mg] ;W[mc] ;B[nf] ;W[md] ;B[kh] ;W[ki]C[kibarosman [ 1k \]: oh, now i see Uberdude [ 2k?\]: if l12 w has eye space with n13 kibarosman [ 1k \]: b didn't want to allow w n13 in sente Uberdude [ 2k?\]: considering m12 soblue [ 6d?\]: white has disturbingly few liberties if he starts cutting soblue [ 6d?\]: err, black baldur [ 5d \]: m12 gives away awful damezumari for black baldur [ 5d \]: m11 i mean kibarosman [ 1k \]: does that mean "shape" or "aji" ....? Rectumraid [ 2d?\]: r19 first? kibarosman [ 1k \]: damezumari? Uberdude [ 2k?\]: liberty shortage baldur [ 5d \]: yeah, in the corner Uberdude [ 2k?\]: oh t17, yes Uberdude [ 2k?\]: nasty Uberdude [ 2k?\]: but also w liberties low] ;B[kj] ;W[jh]C[kibarosman [ 1k \]: i see, baldur, w n12 requires a response from b corner] ;B[km]C[Uberdude [ 2k?\]: p7 looks shapey KingAji [ 1k?\]: W R6] ;W[lm]C[kibarosman [ 1k \]: would be a pity if everyone lived at the end] ;B[hn] ;W[in]C[Uberdude [ 2k?\]: maybe b just counts and q6 Uberdude [ 2k?\]: let w connect on dame Uberdude [ 2k?\]: and get s12 noneddi [ 1d?\]: would be too simple] ;B[im]C[KingAji [ 1k?\]: funny fight on neutral points] ;W[io]C[Disruption [13k?\]: there's more than that Kettu [ 4d?\]: neutral points... or cutting points Disruption [13k?\]: black is aiming to kill Disruption [13k?\]: white isn't in the best of positions in that zone] ;B[ho]C[Uberdude [ 2k?\]: it's interesting for black KingAji [ 1k?\]: but B doesnt need to, KingAji [ 1k?\]: more fun this way XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: w e6] ;W[fm] ;B[en] ;W[em] ;B[dm] ;W[dn]C[Uberdude [ 2k?\]: b e6? am i missing some tesuji] ;B[gm]C[Disruption [13k?\]: it doesn't seem to work] ;W[fl]C[Uberdude [ 2k?\]: ah it is false Disruption [13k?\]: F8 was the only option actually, I'm curious about black reaction now XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: f8 can play at h7 no trouble] ;B[lq]C[Disruption [13k?\]: nope Disruption [13k?\]: H7 gets nasty after G6 XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: G6, w simply F6 XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: too many eyes for w, connection is the last choice] ;W[qn]C[flashback [ 7d \]: seems like b wanna lose Disruption [13k?\]: too many eyes can get to not enough eyes without caution Disruption [13k?\]: I still think that Q6 seemed more than enough for him a while ago flashback [ 7d \]: he made w connected and alive at gote] ;B[nn]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: h6 may get sente, since b need K5] ;W[on]C[flashback [ 7d \]: just q6 was far enough for b Disruption [13k?\]: I think the same Disruption [13k?\]: I don't understand the latest plays from black Disruption [13k?\]: maybe there's something we aren't yet seeing? siljan [ 2k?\]: Ausnahem in der 1. Runde Disruption [13k?\]: that seems unlikely though siljan [ 2k?\]: Ab Rund 2 gibt's gelbe Karten flashback [ 7d \]: there isnt Sandmann [ 5d?\]: wofür? Sandmann [ 5d?\]: wofuer Disruption [13k?\]: It just seems to me that black threw the game away playing on the J6 zone instead of securing in the Q6 zone siljan [ 2k?\]: Fuer zu spaete bMannschaftsmeldung Disruption [13k?\]: so huge that side XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: Indeed, g8 play at k6 superb! Sandmann [ 5d?\]: hm aso XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: f8 play at k5 siljan [ 2k?\]: Mussen wir offlin besprechen siljan [ 2k?\]: 1,5 Stundne s?paeter ist verloren] ;B[nm]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: f8 seems wasted a move] ;W[mo]C[Disruption [13k?\]: actually he needs another move to kill J5, they are not dead at all Disruption [13k?\]: K5 seems more than enough to get out of there Disruption [13k?\]: so I don't see the point of that gote party black had Uberdude [ 2k?\]: e6 at q6 looked much better Disruption [13k?\]: Q6 was the biggest play for a while Disruption [13k?\]: J6 zone leaded to nothing Disruption [13k?\]: and Black didn't need to risk that much Uberdude [ 2k?\]: making w f7 first was fine XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: clear e6 misread] ;B[jm]C[Sandmann [ 5d?\]: tien put a lot of effort in attacking] ;W[lk]C[Uberdude [ 2k?\]: r8 kiai Sandmann [ 5d?\]: but seems the effort got waisted] ;B[rn]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: w f8 now seems lost a few points] ;W[ql]C[Disruption [13k?\]: at least black killed now the J5 stones Disruption [13k?\]: that's something Sandmann [ 5d?\]: sacrificial stones cannot be killed] ;B[pl]C[Disruption [13k?\]: well, that sacrificial stones were alive and kicking a while ago] ;W[pm]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: seems b ahead, w f8 missed chance to catch back. XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: catch up] ;B[rm] ;W[pk]C[Sandmann [ 5d?\]: b seems to be in a bit of trouble there though] ;B[ol] ;W[qm]C[Sandmann [ 5d?\]: or not:S] ;B[rl]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: i donot see s8 bad] ;W[qk] ;B[oj]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: bad XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: should s9] ;W[rk] ;B[rj] ;W[sk]C[madhatter [ 1k+\]: no s9 would gibve up qr10 because b has to connect then at n10] ;B[rh]C[Disruption [13k?\]: S12 and after that and white protect N10 maybe Disruption [13k?\]: here we have S12 XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: this is also very good! XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: for b Disruption [13k?\]: yep, it was predictable, white T9 wasn't really good] ;W[rg]C[Disruption [13k?\]: there's no way black is going to let that group die] ;B[mj]C[Disruption [13k?\]: there we have N10 as expected] ;W[qp] ;B[rp] ;W[or] ;B[pr]C[Sandmann [ 5d?\]: t9 and so on were great kothreats] ;W[nr]C[Disruption [13k?\]: yup Disruption [13k?\]: wasted now] ;B[ps]C[Sandmann [ 5d?\]: if w wanted to play o2 at n2 XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: L1?] ;W[bf]C[Disruption [13k?\]: it's painful to look at the right side anyways Disruption [13k?\]: white didn't get points there, but imagine if black actually had done the Q6 move Disruption [13k?\]: that's a ton of points lost there] ;B[fe] ;W[gf]C[tapir [ 2k?\]: How do you count this game? Isn't it very close or white slightly ahead? Disruption [13k?\]: white has its points mostly concentrated in the top zone, upper and upper left corner Disruption [13k?\]: black has points in many zones, thus being a bit more difficult to count finity: based on CGoban counting, black is very slightly ahead finity: or was, until P2 and B14 Disruption [13k?\]: but the lower left corner, lower center, and lower right side is nice enough tapir [ 2k?\]: I am not asking for automated counts but yours. finity: so it's all about yose and who has more sente Disruption [13k?\]: and upper right corner gives a few points, even if it's not a huge quantity] ;B[do] ;W[eo]C[finity: tapir: I directed SE in unclear areas, so it's semi-automated] ;B[no]C[finity: (i.e. played a few moves in areas where SE doesn't give accurate result) XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: What is b doinf?] ;W[co]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: ding, giveng up? Disruption [13k?\]: dunno] ;B[ko] ;W[mp] ;B[bg] ;W[be] ;B[ed]C[Disruption [13k?\]: I'm still looking at black M19] ;W[bq] ;B[br] ;W[an]C[Disruption [13k?\]: that 4 liberties may be enough for a ko/seki] ;B[cr]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: M19, w play simply at L18 XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: b should start with R19 Disruption [13k?\]: yup] ;W[pe] ;B[oe]C[akuntay [ 2d?\]: who is who ?] ;W[se]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: b is b, and w is w] ;B[sc]C[Disruption [13k?\]: lol Disruption [13k?\]: can't be explained better finity: Tienb is Antti Törmänen finity: Pei is Pei akuntay [ 2d?\]: i mean whic country XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: good is bad, and bad is good, Amen! siljan [ 2k?\]: Grmany vs. Finland] ;W[ks]C[akuntay [ 2d?\]: who is winning?] ;B[js]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: w] ;W[ls] ;B[kr] ;W[mr] ;B[gn] ;W[fn] ;B[li] ;W[mh] ;B[ji] ;W[kh] ;B[qa]C[noneddi [ 1d?\]: very even i think] ;W[pa] ;B[ec] ;W[eb] ;B[dd] ;W[cc] ;B[fd] ;W[ef]C[Disruption [13k?\]: K2 still there Disruption [13k?\]: starting to get nice as sente points finish noneddi [ 1d?\]: it doesnt work Disruption [13k?\]: oh, yes Disruption [13k?\]: i saw one more space akuntay [ 2d?\]: this move is so big akuntay [ 2d?\]: w is winning i think noneddi [ 1d?\]: i guess w i ahead by 4-6 or so BAM0 [ 5d?\]: B+] ;B[dg]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: seems b is not bad. may win 1p min] ;W[ao] ;B[aq]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: niw this 1p is giving back finity: seems like W+1.5 or such] ;W[sf] ;B[sd] ;W[jf] ;B[ng] ;W[sl]C[Disruption [13k?\]: B R12? XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: what is D13 for?] ;B[lr] ;W[ms]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: 1p gote? Disruption [13k?\]: yup] ;B[cl] ;W[bl] ;B[el] ;W[sm] ;B[sn]C[joachim [ 1d+\]: without d13 whitw can connect at a12 a13 akuntay [ 2d?\]: seki shape] ;W[ai]C[adp [ 4k \]: b still has to take f11 group off the board? akuntay [ 2d?\]: yes] ;B[af]C[rausku [ 1k?\]: yup] ;W[ae] ;B[ag] ;W[qi] ;B[ri] ;W[os] ;B[hm] ;W[oo] ;B[qo] ;W[om] ;B[po] ;W[ml] ;B[nl] ;W[ge] ;B[hi] ;W[eg] ;B[ej]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: w win 0.5?] ;W[ah] ;B[fj] ;W[ee]C[Rectumraid [ 2d?\]: it seems so] ;B[gj]C[Rectumraid [ 2d?\]: damn :( finity: T10 1pt ko? finity: for black? fatih [ 2d?\]: yep t10 point XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: then b win? dracman [ 4k \]: what about the other games (fin vs ger) ? rausku [ 1k?\]: 2-1 for germany XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: no, w play t10 win .5p] ;W[qg] ;B[sh] ;W[sj] ;B[ap] ;W[am] ;B[lo] ;W[mn]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: D13 lost 1p there] ;B[kn] ;W[mm] ;B[kl] ;W[kk] ;B[hf] ;W[ig] ;B[ih] ;W[nh] ;B[qh]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: chinese way of counting?] ;W[si] ;B[ok] ;W[pn] ;B[mq]C[dracman [ 4k \]: seems so :) XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: chinese way, b win, Japnnese way, b win?] ;W[mk] ;B[sg]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: Japnnese way, w win XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: Chinese way, b win!] ;W[tt]C[Podiceps [ 6k?\]: it should be japanese according to the rules] ;B[tt] ;W[tt]TB[ar][as][bq][bs][cg][cq][cs][di][ds][ei][ek][es][fi][fr][fs][gh][gi][gq][gs][hj][hq][hr][hs][ij][in][io][ip][iq][ir][is][jo][jp][jq][jr][qr][qs][ra][rc][rq][rr][rs][sa][sb][so][sp][sq][sr][ss]TW[aa][ab][ac][ad][aj][ak][al][ba][bb][bc][bd][bk][ca][cb][da][db][do][ea][en][fa][fb][ga][gb][ha][hc][ia][ib][id][ie][ja][jc][ka][kb][la][lb][lc][ma][mb][na][ns][ob]C[XFC2008 [ 3d?\]: Chinese way more scientific dracman [ 4k \]: ok, good night guys W 58.5 B 58.0])